[Milan]

I know we shouldn't talk about our symptoms but I need reassurance that I'm not the only one experiencing these sensations. If there is one thing more scarier than having this disorder - it's thinking that you?re the only one with these symptoms. When I read other peoples symptoms I sometimes don't relate, it may simply be an exercise in semantics. If it were possible to exchange experiences we may realise we are dealing with the same animal. It just feel's that mine might be different.

1. Material reality seems odd like I've seen it for the first time. It's like I can't understand my place within this material world. It has always been there but it seems different. It's a bit like those 3D pictures where you focus on them you see the image. If I look around and focus on my surroundings in a particular way (which I can't describe) the weirdness of objects becomes very apparent and also scary.

2. The sensations I feel each day seem to change. It still feels strange but a different strange each day. This is where I believe it has something to do with my dreams. I 'm sure there is some lag effect of dreams that give you a certain 'feel' during the day.

3. Noticing that I'm actually thinking and feeling each thought. Puzzled by my stream of consciousness / mental processing. When I'm just being, thinking and processing just happens but sometimes I feel like I step back into or behind my thoughts and experience them on a more subtle plane. Hard to describe.

4. That normal state seems like a trance. You just don't notice the same things like you do when your DP/DR'd. You may have a normal spell and you question it - you start to think the normal self is somehow wrong and ignorant.

5. This one scares me big time. Feeling like you are not the controller of your existence. I could have a normal spell and then out of now where I'll examine my movements and be totally puzzled on how I will my self to move. I then start watching everything as if it is one big movie and it feels like I'm not doing it. This gets me anxious real quick. I find that I have to distract my self real quick before the fear becomes unbearable. This also happens with thoughts and speech.

Can you relate?

 

[Monkeydust]

I'll say straight off that I think your experiences aren't "unusual" within the ambit of DP/DR. I can guarantee that others can relate to those symptoms; I can to many of them. I'll give you my take on them individually, for what it's worth:

1. Material reality seems odd like I've seen it for the first time. It's like I can't understand my place within this material world. It has always been there but it seems different. It's a bit like those 3D pictures where you focus on them you see the image. If I look around and focus on my surroundings in a particular way (which I can't describe) the weirdness of objects becomes very apparent and also scary.

This sounds like one of those things that's hard to put into words, however it seems like a fair description of what some people experience in derealization - reality feeling, perhaps even looking, odd and weird somehow.

2. The sensations I feel each day seem to change. It still feels strange but a different strange each day. This is where I believe it has something to do with my dreams. I 'm sure there is some lag effect of dreams that give you a certain 'feel' during the day.

I can relate to this. I can definitely relate to the comment on dreams.

I'm not exaggerating when I say that I've often had dreams of such weirdness/scariness that it's affected me for the rest of the day somehow. I don't think it's the "impact" of the dream at play; rather it's that the dream is a manifestation of that subconscious activity and when that goes awry you get bad feelings.

3. Noticing that I'm actually thinking and feeling each thought. Puzzled by my stream of consciousness / mental processing. When I'm just being, thinking and processing just happens but sometimes I feel like I step back into or behind my thoughts and experience them on a more subtle plane. Hard to describe.

This sounds like the kind of overanalysing of the self that many people suffering from DP describe. Very common.

4. That normal state seems like a trance. You just don't notice the same things like you do when your DP/DR'd. You may have a normal spell and you question it - you start to think the normal self is somehow wrong and ignorant.

I've heard this before as well. If it's what I'm thinking of, the reasons why you consider your normal self "wrong" or "ignorant" is due to the fact that when you're feeling "normal" you don't care to analyse things in the detail that you do in a DP'ed/hypervigilant state.

5. This one scares me big time. Feeling like you are not the controller of your existence. I could have a normal spell and then out of now where I'll examine my movements and be totally puzzled on how I will my self to move. I then start watching everything as if it is one big movie and it feels like I'm not doing it. This gets me anxious real quick. I find that I have to distract my self real quick before the fear becomes unbearable. This also happens with thoughts and speech.

I've certainly heard this before, and I can relate somehow.

The fact is that, in a very real sense, you - and by "you" I mean that conscious self-aware thinking part of you - are not the controller of your existence.

I always found that in a DP state I'd try to get "a grip on myself" by trying to make all my actions conform to conscious will/decision; in fact any effort to do so results in worse symptoms.

I hope my ramblings helped a little.

 

[SillyPutty]

2,3,4,5 are dead on. 1-I get the same thing but as I've said in past posts the wierdness is usually of my human form and not objects, I take that back, sometimes I think that way of objects too , but on a more broader scale like all material existance as a whole rather then a small individual object, make sense?

 

[Sojourner]

Yes, makes sense to me.

 

[terri*]

Hi Milan,

If talking about your symptoms and seeing others share some of the same ones is helpful, then it is a great thing to talk about. No matter what you come up with in your head, this is a great place to ponder over matters. You will usually find at least one person who knows exactly what you are experiencing.

Writing and working thru this disorder is a great thing. This is not to be confused with the obsessive thinking and trying to think outward thing. Two different animals.

You can put me down for 1,4 and 5. Not to the degree you are dealing with now, but certainly, at one time, to a very high degree of sharing the same thoughts, feelings, emotions or lack thereof.

Good thoughts to you.
terri

 

[Guest]

ALL of them are very familiar to me personally, and I want to add that MonkeyDust's post up there is just excellent. He's a smart one - listen to him, folks.

Peace,
Janine

 

[Milan]

It means a lot to me that you all replied. I'm sort of surprised that the symptoms strike a chord with you. When you read them did you think that the wording was good enough to make you understand what I was trying to say? It's so hard to put these abstract symptoms into words. The thing that irritates me the worst is sometimes I feel totally clear headed and then I induce these states that we label as DP/DR. If I felt spacey or I was hung over I could blame it on something but when I'm clear headed and the feelings come because of me focusing on something like my thoughts, that scares me even more. Thanks once again

 

[bright23]

I just had a thought ? how visually and cognitively the world "comes undone" in an acute DP experience. The world is as we've never seen it before, nothing compares, all concepts fall apart. We become totally distressed and terrified. Everything is different. But we have our fear. We have our fear like we've never really had it before. I recall howling, in a fetal position on the floor, making a sound out of the depths of myself that I'd never heard before. We lose our minds in DP, but we gain far more of our share of fear in this experience. Does our fear prove that we are real.

"I fear; therefore I am."

DP is about fear, about the deepest kind of fear a human can experience, literal, total "loss of humanity." Perhaps we can only find our way out by going deeper into the fear, not around it but through it.

What is fear? Seriously.

 

[rainboteers]

I don't want to go deeper into my fear. I sure hope that isn't the way out because if it is I will probably stay this way forever. :shock:

 

[Monkeydust]

It means a lot to me that you all replied. I'm sort of surprised that the symptoms strike a chord with you. When you read them did you think that the wording was good enough to make you understand what I was trying to say? It's so hard to put these abstract symptoms into words. The thing that irritates me the worst is sometimes I feel totally clear headed and then I induce these states that we label as DP/DR. If I felt spacey or I was hung over I could blame it on something but when I'm clear headed and the feelings come because of me focusing on something like my thoughts, that scares me even more. Thanks once again

The symptoms you described made perfect sense to me, although I appreciate that they're often very hard to put into words, since by their nature they're very "odd" feelings" which words don't apply to well.

I think if you reread what you've written there you'll find that you already know more about what brings this on than you think. You said that, when you feel "clear headed", DP can come on "out of the blue" once you focus on your own inner thoughts. That is a very common experience, and it is precisely what you need to try and stop doing in order to help these feelings go away.

I'm not saying that focusing on your own thoughts is bad per se, but us types seem to have a tendency to focus on our inner thoughts as a means to try and get control of ourselves, to try and "get a grip" on our self that we feel we're losing. Although this might seem like a good idea, it really doesn't work. So my advice to you is to try and "catch yourself" whenever you start such focusing on inner-thoughts and focus on something else. It worked for me lol.

"I fear; therefore I am."

DP is about fear, about the deepest kind of fear a human can experience, literal, total "loss of humanity." Perhaps we can only find our way out by going deeper into the fear, not around it but through it.

I think there may be some truth in what you're saying here; but really it depends what kind of angle you're coming from.

Clearly our best way to get out of DP isn't by trying to get deeper into it. But in many respects DP makes us "go around the fear", it makes us not want to face up to our real problems, many of which are causing our symptoms in the first place.

I think going in the direction of "real fears", and trying to tackle those, is good advice.

 

[moonDust]

2,3,4
Totally relate.

5
Happens when i'm overanalyze myself.

 

[Milan]

I wish to add one more symptom:

6. You find yourself coasting along in what I suppose you can call the 'normal trance' when suddenly you have this realisation that you exist. It's like your awareness has side stepped your normal train of thought and you observe your self form a different perspective - like Ben's analogy of the glass on the computer monitor. You become aware of your existence but during this awareness there is a lack of self / identity. Sorry this one is hard to describe and that's the best I can do a the moment. When I try to think of the experience it's confusing and that makes it harder to put into words. Anyway I feel my anxiety rising now as I'm trying to think of it. I'll leave it for now as it is morning and I'm having going through symptom number 2 at the moment and I should be focusing outward not on the sensations. Doe's this make sense to anyone?

By the way I'm sort of getting addicted to this board. It give's me something to look forward to and take my focus off myself. My psychiatrist said I should avoid the internet as it will make matters worse but it feels good posting things and getting responses. Sometimes I need to vent and I can't speak to my wife as she just sees this disorder as another problem to add to all the others. Anyway I've chewed off her ear much to much on matters concerning myself and I can understand her frustration. I need to talk about these things as it's one way I'm able to deal with it. Thank you all.

Bright 23 wrote:

how visually and cognitively the world "comes undone" in an acute DP experience. The world is as we've never seen it before, nothing compares, all concepts fall apart. We become totally distressed and terrified. Everything is different.

You just hit the nail on the head - this is exactly what I'm talking about and it is by far the worst experience I have ever had in my life. Because this experience is so profound it leaves a lasting impression on your psyche and then it's the battle to get to where we once were. What makes the battle so hard is that the experience was so powerful. You try to find your self when there are only fragments left - it's as hard as trying lift your self by your shoelaces. As for going through the fear I thought of that and tried it once and found it too unbearable. I'll stick to going around it. I can explore it more once I am more stable.

 

[peaceboy23]

I can totally understand the feeling of number five. Sometimes i start to focus on my walking and just stop because i'm like "how am I walking wihtout thinking about walking" and then it's like i have to focus on the fact that I'm walking. This happens with my breathing sometimes. I start to think about my breathing and wonder if I can keep doing it without thinking about it.

 

[Guest]

6. You find yourself coasting along in what I suppose you can call the 'normal trance' when suddenly you have this realisation that you exist. It's like your awareness has side stepped your normal train of thought and you observe your self form a different perspective - like Ben's analogy of the glass on the computer monitor. You become aware of your existence but during this awareness there is a lack of self / identity. Sorry this one is hard to describe and that's the best I can do a the moment. When I try to think of the experience it's confusing and that makes it harder to put into words. Anyway I feel my anxiety rising now as I'm trying to think of it. I'll leave it for now as it is morning and I'm having going through symptom number 2 at the moment and I should be focusing outward not on the sensations. Doe's this make sense to anyone?

oh yeah.
goodness...yes.
This, right here, is the thing I struggle with the most, day in and day out.
I told my buddy that the worst thing that ever happened to me is that I figured out my existance (or become aware of it. either way). And when I start to concentrate on existing, then my individual life gets lost among the lives of everyone else, and that's when I have to start coping with the anxiety.
I am certainly glad I am not the only one that gets this.

you put it into words perfectly. I couldn't have done it better.

 

[Guest]

To me, that is the very essence of the dp experience. It's a disintegration of Ego boundaries - as if the "self" (or our experience of self) is suddenly morphing into everything and nothing simultaneously.

When one has experienced that self-annihilation, then the obsessiveness sets in - the mounting terror, day to day, the self-monitoring, etc..all the crap that sets this disorder into stone. We are so petrified of tasting that loss of ego boundaries sensation again that we actually make ourselves SICK, but we're trying to prevent the very thing we end up feeding.

This "vanishing" experience is the opposite of what is called "oceanic feelings" - those are GOOD, they are the experience of BOUNDLESS Ego existence - the feeling (that everyone experiences briefly at some point I think) of being ONE with the universe, in a profound and good way. Many religious experiences are based on it - or "in loveness' or just sitting and staring at the sky and suddenly one has a Buddha-esque feeling of totally FITTING with the world.

DP is the opposite. Annihilation anxiety is the essence of ego fragmentation - all resulting from a sudden and traumatic "break" in the usually tight sense of ego boundary (that which separates ME from Not Me).

I know it all sounds jargony, lol...but to me, that is precisely what happened to me and it makes both logical and visceral sense to me.

Peace,
Janine

 

[Guest]

I know we shouldn't talk about our symptoms but I need reassurance that I'm not the only one experiencing these sensations. If there is one thing more scarier than having this disorder - it's thinking that you?re the only one with these symptoms. When I read other peoples symptoms I sometimes don't relate, it may simply be an exercise in semantics. If it were possible to exchange experiences we may realise we are dealing with the same animal. It just feel's that mine might be different.

1. Material reality seems odd like I've seen it for the first time. It's like I can't understand my place within this material world. It has always been there but it seems different. It's a bit like those 3D pictures where you focus on them you see the image. If I look around and focus on my surroundings in a particular way (which I can't describe) the weirdness of objects becomes very apparent and also scary.

2. The sensations I feel each day seem to change. It still feels strange but a different strange each day. This is where I believe it has something to do with my dreams. I 'm sure there is some lag effect of dreams that give you a certain 'feel' during the day.

3. Noticing that I'm actually thinking and feeling each thought. Puzzled by my stream of consciousness / mental processing. When I'm just being, thinking and processing just happens but sometimes I feel like I step back into or behind my thoughts and experience them on a more subtle plane. Hard to describe.

4. That normal state seems like a trance. You just don't notice the same things like you do when your DP/DR'd. You may have a normal spell and you question it - you start to think the normal self is somehow wrong and ignorant.

5. This one scares me big time. Feeling like you are not the controller of your existence. I could have a normal spell and then out of now where I'll examine my movements and be totally puzzled on how I will my self to move. I then start watching everything as if it is one big movie and it feels like I'm not doing it. This gets me anxious real quick. I find that I have to distract my self real quick before the fear becomes unbearable. This also happens with thoughts and speech.

Can you relate?

I'm so glad you posted that. YES I definately know what you mean as I feel this too - I couldn't think of how to put it though other than maybe "I don't understand my own perception". Particuarly when I wake up in the mornings I just seem... 'hyper concious'?! I wonder if it is maybe acute self awareness sometimes.

I know it sounds silly, but, I would love to be like Homer Simpson Basically carefree, nothing really fazes him and goes through life regardless. Or something like that.

 

[Milan]

Janine, what you have just written has resonated within me in a profound way. I'm at work now but I will post a reply when I get a chance. I just wish I was corresponding to you and this board two years ago before the symptoms got this strong.

Janine your just so clever. What you said does make sense. Yes we just don't want to experience that loss of ego boundary - it's by far the most terrifying thing that I have ever felt. Last night, for example, I was in the shower and I started sensing my movements and then it hit me - I'm moving but it is not ME doing the moving, then my arms felt like they weren't mine which is strange because I feel the touch sensations but they're not my arms...then the fear - and I mean BIG fear. It took me a while to calm down from that one. Now I've been monitoring my movements since that episode and I have forgotten all the other symptoms.

I think that is true about all the monitoring. All I'm trying to do is solidify the fact that I have an ego and trying to prove that the 'not me' feeling is false. But in the middle of a DP episode your certain that the your identity is simply an illusion. All that text I read about enlightenment and the no self comes to mind and that only intensifies my conviction that there is no 'you'. Scary s**t. Simply said, no testing ever seems to solidify the ego boundaries. During the times of going with the flow only then there seems to be a sense of self. Try to test, to verify that you are in control of your reality only disintegrates the ego. Just can't win.

From your post it is not enlightenment that I'm experiencing but rather annihilation anxiety. I have never heard of the term
'Oceanic Feelings'. I would like to know more about this phenomenon. I'm sure most of us would rather be feeling OF than DP/DR.

Janine could you sum it up like this:

Break in ego -> fear anxiety -> shift from normal perception -> monitoring; testing; analysing; obsessing; checking of self to determine ego intact -> test fails 'no ego' -> fear anxiety -> shift in normal perception??..so on and so forth.

What are your thoughts?