[NoDevils]

Also, Nazi Germany wasn't that bad. Like and repost this on social media.

 

[SIGISMONDI]

If anyone is interested in reading the other posts he wrote on the forum, he wrote a whole lot more, this is the link to the profile: Original Visual-Snow or Static forum

As far as I could tell from his posts in the forum he was «normal» at one point. The «no emotions» and «no remorse» seems to have come on with the illness. If that is right, it does not seem to fit with psycopathy, but I don’t doubt that he must have been predisposed in some way for What happened later, maybe he always had some out of the box personality traits, I can certainly see a need to come of as very intelligent from some of his comments in the forum.

I don’t know how the rest of you experienced onset of DPDR, but for me I also had this sort of sudden onset, which he seems to have had too. I also experienced anhedonia (loss of ability to feel joy, I am guessing this symptom is what people describe as loss of emotion) and I also had dulling of empathy. I pretty much had a major personality change when I got my DPDR

Yeah. You are right @NoDevils. It might be as relevant as eczema. There are outliers in every group. Most people would never do what he did. Mental health issues or not.

His high school classmates said that he came back to school after one summer a completely different person. The same thing happened to my son in August 2015.

 

[SIGISMONDI]

I don’t know if any of you in here have been following the Idaho 4 case where Brian Kohberger recently was arrested and charged with murder. There has been a lot of speculation as to his motive and possible mental state if he is indeed guilty Turns out he has had a profile on a forum for people who suffer from visual snow, a forum called tapatalk.com, where he talks about his symptoms all the way back in 2011. It is there he also talks about his depersonalization. As someone who has struggled with chronic DPDR for 18 years I must say I relate to a lot of what he is talking about and I understand the hopelessness that comes with it. I can see that building up over time if he did not get the help he needed.
It in no way excuses murdering 4 people of course. Does anyone else have any thoughts about the case? Any hope that this case could at least be helpful in spreading awareness about how badly these symptoms can affect people and get more people the help they need.
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My heart sank when I first read that his personality changed overnight during high school. His former friend's description of him at that time sounded just like my son: a normal, high achieving, athletic, friendly, popular kid...and then overnight he was none of those things. There were several heartbreaking (and scary) years that I was unable to disagree with whispers of sociopathy/psychopathy. I had lost my son but I saw him every day. This is the first that I've seen anyone say that the killer suffered from DPDR but I thought of it right away when I saw his eyes in a photo and heard what his friend had said. I disagree with some of the other comments. Without actually knowing this person -before or after DP- I'm inclined to think this never would have happened without it.

(My son got sick in 2015. It took 4 years to find the doc that figured out that infections/immune system issues were behind his illness and DR. We have talked about his experiences and (sadly) wondered how many people are in prison due to unknown/undetected physical illnesses like his. I've spent the last 3 years trying to get him to be consistent in his treatment/recovery but he is greatly improved. He still has DR, but experiences a range of emotions again, even if they are muted. I no longer have concerns about sociopathy, but there was a time that I did. This experience doesn't seem to be common among DPDR sufferers thankfully but it can happen).

 

[ThoughtOnFire]

There's only one case that I've heard in 19+ years while being a part of this community of someone with DP/DR murdering people, and this is it.

 

[Trith]

Everyone's heroin use is different. For some people it's not a problem and for others it destroys them.

But you've got a point. It's not a stretch to say this guy resembles a psychopath. The premeditation, apparent senselessness of the crime, and possible fascination with killers are all red flags.



Grammar nazi only works because it's a joke. Besides, equating curemongers to nazis makes no sense. We must be in a privileged position to equate people making statements we disagree with to crimes against humanity.

Oh but the comparison with nazis was a joke too, I can't imagine what it would mean if it was really literally literal. But I understand that nazis are maybe not the best topic to make jokes on everything. Sorry about that. "Curemongers" works too, although it's not just that they sell their cure, it's that they sell themselves as a coach or guru, or naturally assume they should be considered as such, and without giving arguments, just because they really feel they are right. Like that guy who doesn't give any argument but just says "If I wasn't 100% sure it was right I wouldn't say it, so you can trust me". Assuming that they have some sort of intellectual superiority is very natural to them, so much so that they don't even see there is anything wrong with their attitude.
I think it's a topic in its own. Aside from the fact that I get triggered by this, it's very strange to see so many. And I really don't mean people who simply come to share with others what helped them, which is a good thing, independent of being right or wrong. I mean the people who really come and tell you "you are wrong, because I know the truth, now do as I say and you will be cured", those who say "accept I am right and it will save you time", and who lack basic humility. Even if one of them really has a cure, this behavior is quite narcissistic. And they have poor awareness of other people's boundaries. It's like they naturally assume that their thoughts should be better than those of other people.

I do identify some narcissistic traits in myself too sometimes. I was wondering if, and that's just my personal little theory, if people with narcissistic traits might not be a little over-represented in people who have DPDR on the long term (or maybe that's just the internet?). One problem I have is to let go of my thoughts, I think I tend to trust them too much, I overestimate them, and they seduce me too much, and perhaps it makes it easier for them to draw my attention away from the physical world again and again, because I am constantly tricked into thinking they might yield some positive outcome (this might not be a particularly narcissistic thing, but perhaps it is easier if you have narcissistic traits). This is probably not the main thing about DPDR, but I was just wondering if their might be a link. Unfortunately, it is quite clear that curing DPDR doesn't cure narcissism.

 

[NoDevils]

Oh but the comparison with nazis was a joke too, I can't imagine what it would mean if it was really literally literal. But I understand that nazis are maybe not the best topic to make jokes on everything. Sorry about that. "Curemongers" works too, although it's not just that they sell their cure, it's that they sell themselves as a coach or guru, or naturally assume they should be considered as such, and without giving arguments, just because they really feel they are right. Like that guy who doesn't give any argument but just says "If I wasn't 100% sure it was right I wouldn't say it, so you can trust me". Assuming that they have some sort of intellectual superiority is very natural to them, so much so that they don't even see there is anything wrong with their attitude.
I think it's a topic in its own. Aside from the fact that I get triggered by this, it's very strange to see so many. And I really don't mean people who simply come to share with others what helped them, which is a good thing, independent of being right or wrong. I mean the people who really come and tell you "you are wrong, because I know the truth, now do as I say and you will be cured", those who say "accept I am right and it will save you time", and who lack basic humility. Even if one of them really has a cure, this behavior is quite narcissistic. And they have poor awareness of other people's boundaries. It's like they naturally assume that their thoughts should be better than those of other people.

I do identify some narcissistic traits in myself too sometimes. I was wondering if, and that's just my personal little theory, if people with narcissistic traits might not be a little over-represented in people who have DPDR on the long term (or maybe that's just the internet?). One problem I have is to let go of my thoughts, I think I tend to trust them too much, I overestimate them, and they seduce me too much, and perhaps it makes it easier for them to draw my attention away from the physical world again and again, because I am constantly tricked into thinking they might yield some positive outcome (this might not be a particularly narcissistic thing, but perhaps it is easier if you have narcissistic traits). This is probably not the main thing about DPDR, but I was just wondering if their might be a link. Unfortunately, it is quite clear that curing DPDR doesn't cure narcissism.

Narcissistic traits are abundant in the general population. It's often overabundant in certain types of murderers like Elliot Rogers and possibly the Idaho 4 killer. People who say they've found one method that will cure everyone do remind me of a Kanye West or something. You're right that many of them are genuine in their beliefs. Sometimes they're saying they're 100% sure the cure worked for them, which is dubious, and sometimes they're saying they're 100% sure it'll work for you, even more dubious. I can recover from a flu while drinking lemonade and then believe the lemonade is what cured me, so I'm skeptical even of people's personal reports. People can also falsely believe their symptoms have remitted, as is evident by the placebo effect.

A curemonger who bans people for challenging them is in my opinion like nazi for wantonly and spitefully censoring people who disagree with them. Fortunately DPSH is headed by two fairly coolheaded individuals. I've never had the misfortune of being in a depersonalization community with mods or admins like you're describing. Our admins may be on the other side of the fence from curemongers, tired of people who insist there needs to be a cure for this normal phenomenon, but they're very patient. Acceptance, like humility, is a delicate tightrope to walk because too much acceptance can represent complacence or neglect.

I've gradually come to accept my symptoms resemble dissociation or, so to speak, the level of dementia present in many depression and PTSD cases. At first I worried it was caused by some mystery illness or deficiency. The human body and mind are a mystery in themselves, and like many people with depersonalization I've had to accept this ambiguity. Some scientific and medical fields are likely to be more advanced in the future, but we're alive now and have no choice but to live our lives or commit suicide.

 

[NoDevils]

My heart sank when I first read that his personality changed overnight during high school. His former friend's description of him at that time sounded just like my son: a normal, high achieving, athletic, friendly, popular kid...and then overnight he was none of those things. There were several heartbreaking (and scary) years that I was unable to disagree with whispers of sociopathy/psychopathy. I had lost my son but I saw him every day. This is the first that I've seen anyone say that the killer suffered from DPDR but I thought of it right away when I saw his eyes in a photo and heard what his friend had said. I disagree with some of the other comments. Without actually knowing this person -before or after DP- I'm inclined to think this never would have happened without it.

(My son got sick in 2015. It took 4 years to find the doc that figured out that infections/immune system issues were behind his illness and DR. We have talked about his experiences and (sadly) wondered how many people are in prison due to unknown/undetected physical illnesses like his. I've spent the last 3 years trying to get him to be consistent in his treatment/recovery but he is greatly improved. He still has DR, but experiences a range of emotions again, even if they are muted. I no longer have concerns about sociopathy, but there was a time that I did. This experience doesn't seem to be common among DPDR sufferers thankfully but it can happen).

Your son had physical illness causing his psychological problems? What was it and how did you treat it? Personality change is alarming and can come from a variety of physical illnesses.

It's possible for psychiatric illnesses like depression, PTSD, and heroin addiction to cause personality changes. Depression and heroin addiction may have played a role in the Idaho 4 killer's change. Psychologists maintain that these mental disorders can be major contributors to suicidal and homicidal behavior as well as physical disorders can.

 

[SIGISMONDI]

Your son had physical illness causing his psychological problems? What was it and how did you treat it? Personality change is alarming and can come from a variety of physical illnesses.

It's possible for psychiatric illnesses like depression, PTSD, and heroin addiction to cause personality changes. Depression and heroin addiction may have played a role in the Idaho 4 killer's change. Psychologists maintain that these mental disorders can be major contributors to suicidal and homicidal behavior as well as physical disorders can.

Yes, in August of 2015 (at age 15) he developed 24/7 derealization seemingly out of nowhere. As the months wore on without answers and one doc/psych referral after another...he became unrecognizable and unable to function. A danger to himself and others. Alternating rage and cold detachment. Psych hold, arrests. It was hell. I kept looking for answers and making appts. Finally, a new doctor suggested checking for tickborne illnesses. He was positive for Bartonella, Babesia and Borrelia. Below tracks with our experience - see the Abstract about halfway down the page

Case Study: Bartonella and Sudden-Onset Adolescent Schizophrenia

A new case study describes a Bartonella infection with symptoms that mimicked Schizophrenia.

news.ncsu.edu

As soon as we started treating (2019), his symptoms became much more severe but he started having more of a range of emotions. Unfortunately, treatment isn't as simple as taking antibiotics for a few weeks. The infections seem to be what kicked off DR but a dysregulated immune response (autoimmune encephalitis) is involved and that is harder to figure out. After killing off some of the infection, he's found HBOT and Neurofeedback to be the the most helpful. We have an HBOT chamber at home and he's had Neurofeedback once a week for the last 2 months.

As for the Idaho 4 killer ....he was (also) 15 when he developed DP. His heroin addiction was a result of his illness. He's now 28. I shudder to think how differently it may have gone for my son if I hadn't found this one doctor. My son's childhood friend developed DR from MDMA use. He suffers from depression now, but his personality is basically the same as it was before. That seems to be the case for people with DPDR generally. For my son, it was very different and the change was obvious and alarming. It sounds like it went that way with the killer too

 

[NoDevils]

Yes, in August of 2015 (at age 15) he developed 24/7 derealization seemingly out of nowhere. As the months wore on without answers and one doc/psych referral after another...he became unrecognizable and unable to function. A danger to himself and others. Alternating rage and cold detachment. Psych hold, arrests. It was hell. I kept looking for answers and making appts. Finally, a new doctor suggested checking for tickborne illnesses. He was positive for Bartonella, Babesia and Borrelia. Below tracks with our experience - see the Abstract about halfway down the page

Case Study: Bartonella and Sudden-Onset Adolescent Schizophrenia

A new case study describes a Bartonella infection with symptoms that mimicked Schizophrenia.

news.ncsu.edu

As soon as we started treating (2019), his symptoms became much more severe but he started having more of a range of emotions. Unfortunately, treatment isn't as simple as taking antibiotics for a few weeks. The infections seem to be what kicked off DR but a dysregulated immune response (autoimmune encephalitis) is involved and that is harder to figure out. After killing off some of the infection, he's found HBOT and Neurofeedback to be the the most helpful. We have an HBOT chamber at home and he's had Neurofeedback once a week for the last 2 months.

As for the Idaho 4 killer ....he was (also) 15 when he developed DP. His heroin addiction was a result of his illness. He's now 28. I shudder to think how differently it may have gone for my son if I hadn't found this one doctor. My son's childhood friend developed DR from MDMA use. He suffers from depression now, but his personality is basically the same as it was before. That seems to be the case for people with DPDR generally. For my son, it was very different and the change was obvious and alarming. It sounds like it went that way with the killer too

We can only speculate what's going on with Idaho 4's physical health. Personality change can be caused by a variety of things including drugs. I'm glad you found the causes of your son's problems and were able to treat them.