[jake]

I was thinking what my psychiatrist asked on the phone almost 2 weeks ago. We see eachother 3-4x a year. I haven't been to my therapist in over a year; paying down a bll, plus actually I seemed to be able to do without talking to her once a week. She does call me back if something is going on I need to talk about, and does not charge her time on the phone, which is very nice. And since I don't abuse the priveledge and she knows I always pay my bills off, she trusts me in lots of ways. Infact she wanted me to not worry about the bill and come in semi regular again. She has mentioned it lots of times. But I jsut didn't feel okay about that bill getting bigger. Aaaannyway..ack to the phone session with psychiatrist July 25th..
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We rarely have phone sessions. I have had this same psychiatrist since 1992. She did it that day no problem b/cuz we had a smog alert here and heat (I have COPD and asthma, and no A/C in the car) and plus I began to tell her how my anxiety has gotten "out of hand" since I saw her in March. That's when she asked, "Do you have any idea what tripped it off in these past few months?" I had some ideas but nothing to me anyway that really could explain in light of how terrible it FEELS.
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She told me to take 2.5mg instead of 1.5 that has been my dose since 1999 when I started on it (Klonopin). I have been taking 2mg since that day, and last night finally took the last .5 when I was still awake at 430am. I want to be able to tell her when I see her in September that I have been taking what she suggested. I also wanna talk changing anti-depressants or increasing my remeron. We shall see.
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Last night or this morning..I put in a search for "delayed reaction anxiety panic". There was a whole article about having panic and how this counselor/therapist whatever he was/ always asks ppl with increase panic or anxiety "what has been going on in the past 6 to 12 months?" And he does this b/cuz in his view this is just the last straw so to speak. Preceding "attacks" and symptoms is a long period, well, 6-12 months on average... preceding the panic attacks and dp, anxiety, (I lump these 2gether for myself).
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It is a last straw of time period where things have built up, we haven't coped healthily nor known how, and that the thoughts and ways we have dealt with things that happened in the time period previous (6-12 mos.) is what we are reacting to now. He said all panic is delayed reaction.
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Makes sense to me, though it kinda goes against some of the opinion on here about not looking at the past. I don't know, I think this delayed reaction struck a chord with me..as in recent past, not 20 yrs ago. I think it's worth looking into for me. What do you guys think?
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[Sojourner]

Hi, Jake,

She told me to take 2.5mg instead of 1.5 that has been my dose since 1999 when I started on it (Klonopin). I have been taking 2mg since that day, and last night finally took the last .5 when I was still awake at 430am. I want to be able to tell her when I see her in September that I have been taking what she suggested.

Lying to your doctor? I invite you to read between the lines here, because I am not going to post what I am thinking.

He said all panic is delayed reaction.

Ridiculous. Nothing is ever all anything.

If one is going to understand oneself TODAY, and if one is HIDING THINGS from oneself, one must un-hide the things. Where are those things? In the future? No, of course not. They are in our past experience, not "the past," but our past reactions to life.

If something triggers us today, it's probably connected to something that we are not conscious of -- that is, if we cannot point to a real loss, or trauma, or injury, or event, or something that makes sense.

The way I understand it (and that's only partially, of course), our reactions today are based on how we reacted in the past. Much of our life is experienced without conscious thought. When we are happy, we have no need to discover what the unconscious thought is that underlies our present happy experience. We are too busy enjoying life. But when we are troubled and miserable, we have a need to discover what UNCONSCIOUS thoughts are causing us to not be in emotional equilibrium -- again, presuming there is not something ACTUAL that has occurred to cause us suffering. If we have been in a car wreck, feeling bad is not surprising -- it's not a situation in which we should feel obligated to look for what is not conscious. That kind of event NEEDS no explanation. Anyone would be upset by being in a car wreck. That is real trauma. If our house burns down, if we lose a loved one to death, if we are sick, we don't need an explanation for feeling bad.

But when there no events that are obviously the cause of our distress, we have to look for UNCONSCIOUS thoughts and feelings that we are fighting against. We do not want to see them, so we fight them by creating distractions like DP.

I am not going to repeat my recent posts.

It is highly unlikely that you are reacting today to a loss that occurred 20 years ago. But if you didn't react appropriately 20 years ago to that loss, there is an UNCONSCIOUS cause for that. That's the only connection that I can see.

But to say anything is "all" this or "all" that is absurd.

That's what I think.

 

[jake]

Thanks for your reply. Lying to my doctor? I meant that she wanted to jump from 1.5mg a day to 2.5 mg a day, and I was only increasing it to 2mg a day to see how I did..which was not great. Of course I'll tell her thats exactly what I tried too. I always tell her the truth or whats the point ya know? So NOW I can tell her that=as of last nite, I am taking 2.5 mg a day which is what I intend to do. She knows I always try to take less.
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I guess I was really struck by how this guy said ALL panic is delayed reaction too. Quite a sweeping statement. But I did like how he asks people whats been going on, not necessarily a litany of symptoms. It just takes us all different lengths of time and sorting for what might help, or even to come out of denial if we are indeed in it.
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Anyway thanks for answering back I appreciate it.

 

[Sojourner]

Jake,

You have to be discriminating about whom you regard as a trustworthy "authority" on anything, Jake.

A psychopharmacologist (psychiatrist) may want to hear only symptoms, but a therapist usually doesn't, unless it's a CBT therapist, which I would avoid. Generally, they don't give a hoot how you're feeling; they want to run you through their regimen. Many just don't believe the unconscious is of any importance.

You seem to me like someone who'd do better with psychoanalytic therapy. What kind of therapy are you getting now, Jake? You need to know, but right now, I'd like to know. If you do not know, ask your therapist.

 

[Sojourner]

What made you search for the thing you searched for, anyway?

 

[jake]

Hi Sojourner,
I haven't seen my therapist in ovr a year cuz I'm paying down a bill with her. Normally I wouldve had her bill caught up but I had 2 discs from my neck removed and a bone graft..etc etcc..even with insuarance neuro & inpatient is high so that took the most of my money plus MRI and CAT scans co-pays. Anyway...She said just send ten dollars a month so I have been. As I said, she wants me to not worry about the bill and to come back regular or semi--twicwe a month even but I get overwhelmed at the bill gtting bigger as I try to get it smaller!
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She is an LISW, I dont know what type you would call our therapy but I know brief wouldnt describe it since Ihave had her since october 1998, more on than off as far as regular stints// visits. She was the therapist I found to go to who I told my secret to, that I was in a rellationship with my previous one, hiding it to protect her reputation and career and that she was a PhD a psychlogist. And that our "affair" had started in th eoffice and I put the end to that but we kept on seeing eachother.
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There was a long time i wouldnt let the therapist I have now say anything "bad" about the other one--I was very un-well as you can imagine. Finally she slowly helped me come to see I was locked into --not a "relationship" but exploitive abuse. There ended upa horrible lawsuit for professional tort/negligence..I felt more ok, more power I guess, it about killed me though to face her and call this what it was. And her nsurance company I am sure would not have minded if it had killed me...or so it sure seemed.
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So I value very much the boundaries my therapist of today had, has and always had, even though I dont see her. I know she always says to come back and not worry about the bill for now. She may not even be the most productive to work with. I suppose I have alot of loyalty feeling as though she nearly saved my life. I am open to analytical type, have those names in ths area,but have to get another surgery b-4 I work and earn enouhg again etc etc..

 

[jake]

The other question u had as to why last nite I Googled "delayed reaction panic anxiety" is a good question. Partly b/cuz Psychiatrist asked on phone July 25 what had been going on since I saw her last time in March..ie; what had incresed my anxiety to such an enormous degree? I suspect myself frequently of downplaying events so I can survive..so I liked the guy on websites idea: asking in the past 6-12 month time frame what the hells been going on.

 

[jake]

Well here comes my 99th post, wow.
It's short though. I just wanted to say that some times when I bring up the therapy abuse people shut down to me. I don't talk about it hardly at all, but on an anonymous site I am allowed. She and I both had to sign "gag orders" so to speak since they settled with me just b-4 a jury trial was in the works. Well anyway it was a terrible situation and I'm glad I survived it not drunk or dead. I was so addicted to this sick woman I told her if anybody ever asked me, even under oath if she hurt me or anything happened I would perjure myself. She was a "childhood trauma expert"..how sadly ironic.

 

[Sojourner]

Therapy is a good place to discuss that situation, Jake. If your therapist doesn't want to handle it, find another.

 

[jake]

Actually she handles it really well, they deposed her and all my records and she hated it but stood strong in the belief that the psychologist was dangerous and nearly cost me my life. I ony say she may not be productive these days is I have possibly outgrown what she can do for me, or what we can work on together. Unfortunate or fortunate--alot of our therapy was to help me out of denial..help me stay alive thru the truth facing process and then the lawsuit. Lots of damage control obviously took up our time but was necesary. She s been a life saver and I dont think I'm exagerrating. She just has limits and I dont think she is a psychoanalyst. anyway, thank you.

 

[Guest]

Your story is very interesting, Jake and clearly there is ALOT there to be explored in your current therapy. My first thought is to reassure you that I have no problem at all hearing it - wouldn't make me withdraw, etc....I was desperatey in love with my psychoanalyst - and for ME, it was the first time I'd ever let myself fall in love at all (very complex as you can imagine). He, however, unlike yours, did not exploit me. We worked through it, learning to deal with the "failure" on my part to make him really love me the way I wanted.

And that's crucial for you. while you are totally correct that your therapist abused you, absolutely, totally violated the trust of the therapist/patient relationship - all that aside, it must have felt wonderful. You got her to love you. On SOME level (and I am NOT accusing you, please please don't hear that...I'm just trying to explore something else), you wanted it to happen. And it did. THAT conflict, that guilt, etc...is probably no where near being dealt with yet.

My hunch is that it is that kind of stuff that is making you feel the way you do now. MAYBE you stopped seeing this therapist for other reasons besides money. Any good therapist in a good relationship with a patient will do what your just said 'come see me anyway, and pay as you can.."

She's RIGHT to say that, but to you it might like a "potential violation" to your professional relationship with her. My hunch is that you felt like you had her "in the palm of your hand" much like you had the first one. THere might be a deep fear that you could make it happen all over again.

So you withdrew. To protect you both (under the guise of financial reasons). The "overwhelm" you mentioned re: money owed might be a different kind of overwhelm.

Make any sense?

Take care,
Janine

 

[jake]

Hi Janine,
First off it jsust feels good to be able to talk about the big thing outloud. Secondly you are absolutely right that the wish was to be loved by her and we talked about it at great length. Had she been in better shape herself we may have still had to stop therapy but not the way it happened. I remember the very 1st person I confided in. Agood friend. I was amazed at her respone: "Ohh I am sooo sorry. That has got tobe the thing we wish to have happen the most AND the least". Obviously I knew I was sufferieng but I would pay any price at that point. I did feel (and of course a lawsuit a few years later made the most of this for their case) that I had caused this somehow, it was my fault, I pushed her into loving me. Frankly I wanted a mother/friend and when I got a sexually starved girlfriend out of the deal it knda made me sick. But of course it's all mixed up at the time.
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I read some literature that was givent o me about abuse back then and I just could not call it abuse, it was love. The deepest biggest I've ever felt. How unfair was our imbalance and how unfair to any women I was involved with since then. yes it has screwed me up. The final thing that they settled about was b/cuz it was clear she couldnt avoid saying she at least suspected it could be harmful to me or she would not have kept it a secret. I was also "protector" in keeping her secret. Menawhile broke apart inside every day and lost my own career. Oh well, life goes on. But yes this has been the most horrendous situation I was ever in. I still hesitate to call it by its right name b/cuz b-4 it got fuzzy in there, I think we had a chance to do good work. Then I recall a red flag fromt the first session! Thanks for reading and replying I do appreciate your thoughts.

 

[jake]

And th etherapist I still have now who helped me though this did nothig short of heroics gaining my trust and so on. She is really great. I have had feelings of fear when i could tell she thought alot of me as a person, respect, affection even..its been scary. But mainly I think I don't go and make a bigger bill with her b/cuz of the finances and b/cuz she has limits on how she's been able to help with thins after this one ordeal. I may go back anyway. Ineed some support and feedback b/cuz I want to be in the best possible shape for this surgery upcoming. Obviously feeling DP and so on to this degree makes surgery and out of control situations more scary.