[Guest]

For many, many years, I have been consumed with the thought of psychological death. Insanity. Certain I have been heading towards that inevitable conclusion. DP/DR, along with anxiety at a level most people couldn't deal with for 20 seconds, let alone all these years.........

Lately I have been forced to think about the other kind of death. Reminded, I guess, that at some point I will actually die.
Family history, cholesterol levels setting record highs, becoming older, Dreamer getting me started on cigarettes.......all of these things may finally be coming to roost as it were. Had some tests done yesterday, which led to more tests being scheduled. Maybe nothing will show up, but the fact is - I have been reminded. Reminded that one of these days the game will be up.

I do not think I am afraid to die. Not in the physical sense. What has me worried is the thought of dying like "this". DP'ed.
Maybe it's because I was raised Catholic, but for some reason I am utterly terrified that if I die while still DP'ed, I will spend the rest of eternity like this. Suspended between sane and not - forever.
In hell.

I have been thinking more and more about this as the testing on my heart continues. I am also remembering when the whole DP ride started for me. Shortly after I "died" (car accident, heart stopped for awhile, etc.)
I continue to become more DP'ed, wondering if there is a bottom at all to this plummet.

I can't help but think there is a clue here for me. That somehow I should be able to plainly see why I became DP in the first place.
I will in fact die one day. Is that what is causing me to be like this? The knowledge, rammed home by the car accident - that I do not have ultimate control? Did I put myself in such a precarious position, psychologically, to avoid facing the spector of physical death? Logically I understand that I do not have complete control over things and that I will die, make mistakes, etc. etc.
Yet somehow there is a part of me that refuses to accept that.
Is that why I am DP?

I wish I could stop thinking about death, psychological or otherwise.

 

[Guest]

It was certainly a morbid obsession of mine for most of my life

(pausing to HOWL at your off-handed comment above..."and once Dreamer got me started on cigarettes.." LOL.....yes, she got ME started on them, too...now that you mention it...hmmm..."

See, if I was your therapist, I'd say something like this: it seems to me, Mr. sc, that you have been symbolically living in Purgatory since your "death" after the car accident. So...the only "places" left to enter would be heaven or hell. Can you follow your thoughts on that one?

Love,
me

 

[Guest]

Hey SC
I was brought up catholic too & these are the types of thoughts I can't get out of my head either. I sometimes wonder if this is Hell or maybe purgatory & then some days it can be heaven. :?

I often wonder if I am here for a reason then what reason is that? Surely if I had a master he would guide me to my purpose.

If there is nothing but just this existence then that scares me too cause I think shit, what have I done with my life!

SC, do you think you are going to hell?

 

[Magneto]

Before I even get going, this isn't in any way an attempt to start discussion on the existence of "higher powers". I am mainly concerned with death

I was also raised Catholic, but decided on my own that there is no God, no heaven or hell etc. The reason I respond to this post is because I am extremely afraid of death as well, and have been since the first day I experienced DP/DR. I remember thinking "wow, I sure hope this isn't permanent". Lo and behold, almost 3 years later... Like Charger, I ask myself 100 times a day "what have I done with/to my life".

If you don't believe in God, you are also, in my mind, not privy to beliefs such as "this is happening for a reason", "there is a plan for me", destiny, fate etc.

My question is, what is someone in my situation to think?

 

[Guest]

Thank you for the responses. Although I guess I shouldn't have put in the bit about being raised Catholic
:shock:
My point is - I am being confronted with the possibility of a heart attack. That in itself doesn't particularly scare me. What spooks me, terrifies me.........is the thought of dying while still DP. As if - if I don't figure my way out of this mess before I die, I will have to spend whatever kind of afterlife there may or may not be.............stuck like this.
THAT really, really scares me.

 

[terri*]

Okay, I'm putting my thoughts on this. My thought is...if there is an afterlife, you will not be "stuck" like this.

Unfortunately a lot of religions include "scare tactics" to keep the serfs in line. My thinking is a God, an Entity, Madame of the Universe and Cosmos would not think of such a negative energy thought.

So, even casually speaking, you need to "mental floss" (Jimmy Buffett) some of those ideas out of your head. Why? Because it's driving you crazy and it doesn't make any kind of sense. Also, because I said so.

Now, bad thoughts about dying stuck like this - BE GONE.

sc, please try to rest in the thought that the last thing that is going to be included in death is DP/DR. There are really a lot of other good theories going around about the afterlife. You might as well give them all a good fighting chance. :wink:

Oh yeah, mark me as scared about it too, just not the way you are! :shock: :? :?:

Please exit this way :arrow:

 

[Guest]

Sc,

Hi,

I am raised very Catholic too, and I was afraid most of the time by catholic rules, Hell, etc. But I still believe there is a God, so I have faith that when you are dead, you don't suffer. Suffering = DP, illness, etc. So I don't worry about that. I am sure the God (or name it like you want it too) help dead people, so I am sure I will not stay like that in the other world. I am very spiritual, and I know many aren't.

What is bugging me is how to stop DP in THIS world! (lol)

Cynthia xxx

 

[Guest]

I'm right there with you Cynthia=)
I'm Catholic as well but I think that it is actually helping me. It gives me some hope that maybe God will look out for me. Also, it's helpful since I am beginning to think that maybe I should let it go and give up control and self-monitoring since God will protect me and have his/her plans for me regardless of what I'm doing.

Does this make sense?

 

[Kelson12]

I'm more concerned that I will never ever get to enjoy my life here on earth. Right now I have little if any hope.
I too am catholic...does anyone see a trend here?? I go to church every week and pray for God to bring me out of this drudgery and horrible feeling. :?

Take care.

Kelson

 

[Guest]

You want is funny here?

When I was 12, I had DP one year long, and I didn't know what was happening.... I just said I didn't feel there. And I was crying each single day to God to get me out of this crap... every single day....

Then one day, I just began to be pretty busy at school, and people (my family) stopped to ask me : how are you today?? And I cotinued my school, had very good grades, had fun with friends... and.... it went away w/o knowing it. It just went away... I didn't woke up one day and said : wow it's OK! I FORGOT what it was. I forgot to take care of my Dp feeling. I must have put focus outward, I don't know.

The problem is : we aren't that naive, we are too much aware of this illness... we should think like a child and just forget for a while... maybe it could help us!

Cynthia xxx

 

[Guest]

One connection re the Catholic background and dp is this: Catholicism teaches children from VERY young that "thoughts are things" - those kids are taught that not only are actions bad, but thoughts themselves can be bad.

Any religion that makes someone believe they must confess/apologize for thoughts is very likely to turn out some pretty neurotic people.

When children grow up examining their own thinking, they're already looking too far inward. We are responsible for what we DO, that can be good or bad, etc. But thoughts are only thoughts. If we feel like we need to monitor them, we're just a neurotic symptom waiting to happen.

 

[Kelson12]

Janine,

I know I have PMed you before about this...but did you ever think that you were going to change your way of thinking? Because right now, I don't understand how I am gonna get any better, ever. I just don't understand how my thinking is gonna change. No, I am not seeing a doctor right now, but am working on getting back in with one. But how am I gonna change my thinking process? I just don't get it!

Kelson

 

[Guest]

Oh, good God, no....I NEVER thought I'd change a damn thing, lol...seriously.

I went into every doctor's office with one agenda: make these bad feelings stop. If you have to, medicate me. Just keep me cogent enough that I can still be halfway intelligent, lol....

DO ANYTHING TO ME to fix me. But you do it. I'm the patient and I'll just show up and describe it all to you in gorey detail until you finally get it, and DO something.

That was my plan and I was very diligent.

However, it doens't work. lol

Shop. The only advice I can give you is SHOP for a therapist until you find somebody you think you MIGHT remotely be able to trust one day. You won't trust him/her at first regardless..but look for anything, a glimmer, a look, a shared moment of connection, SOMEthing that makes you think maybe this person can really hear me well enough that I'll finally be willing to listen to mySELF in his presence.

Peace,
J

 

[Guest]

Theres only one thing in life thats certain, and that is Death. I sometimes worry and think about it, but its really not worth it. Right now i have my physical health which im thankful for. Im really trying to eat healthier to and of course I work out. I think as long as I stay in good physical health i can overcome this thing. As far as " mental death" or insanity, I STILL to this day worry about that, like I wonder if a " psychotic break" can still occur. Ive been reassured so many times that this will not happen, but its like i can't fully believe it.

Im technically a catholic to and was raised a catholic. However neither me nor my parents have attended church willingly in like 3 or 4 years now. When i was in High School i had to go to a mass every now and than, but i mostly just zoned out and didn't pay much attention. Im not really an athiest, i believe that theres some higher power im just not certain of what that exactly is. I still pray sometimes and hope that one day my prayers will be answered.

I dunno though

 

[Guest]

Hi sc

Well I can relate to this fear also. It is a fear, for me at least, of dying disconnected from my sense of self. It is even more frightening than "normal death" because the "me" is not even there to experience it. It is lost, mis placed somewhere, and with death it seems as though my connection to myself may be lost forever.

I have read in Haryy Guntrips excellent book Schizoid Phenomena, Obeject Realtions And The Self, that some people when they break free of the depersonalization condition will committ suicide so as to die with their sense of self intact. (not recommended BTW)

But I beleive it is important to keep in mind that our sense of "self" is simply a function of the "ego" and the ego is not the totality of the self. I try to often remind myself of this as well.

Jung believed, as I recall, that the ego was simply an appendage of the "self". And anyway I don't believe that the part of us that survives death is the "biographical ego" of our mundane existence, rather our true self is that spark of the Divine that animates our Being with Life and Conciousness. I believe it is that which transcends death.

Also I have read that there are disembodied spirits all around us and sometimes when we have experiences like your near death experience or when we undergo antesthesia for surgery, they will try and push our spirit out of our body to inhabit it. And even though they might not succeed in completely taking over our bodies they may nevertheless dislocate our normal connection to our "egoic" sense of self .

I read a book a while back about a woman therapist/exorcist who when all else failed in treating depersoanlization and other dissociative phenomena would perform an exorcism and in many cases the patients would be healed.

She stated that she didn't necessarily believe that her clients were actually "possessed" as she couldn't prove it in the "scientific sense" but some did seem to improve or be healed and therefore she would perform the ceremony.

john

 

[gizmo]

no offense if you are Catholic, but purgatory is not in the bible.

 

[Guest]

What an interesting thread.

I think that our spirit leaves our body so therefore the physical body including the brain is left behind which means no more illness. But whether we go to heaven or some other place or get reincarnated, who knows.

I didn't know purgatory wasn't in the bible. I thought that was what Holy Souls days was all about. Praying for the people stuck in purgatory - thats a catholic day.

SC you are just thinking way too much. Try & just take each thing as it comes.

Janine, I agree with you about the whole thought/catholic connection. I remember learning in primary school that its not ok to even think bad thoughts about someone let alone act on them. When you are child you believe that & by the time you are an adult is ingrained into your psyche. Its not until you fall ill & learn about the way the brain works that you realise that its a load of crap.

 

[Homeskooled]

Just wanted to point out that purgatory IS in the bible. Its in the book of Maccabees. This book was removed from the Torah after the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans, because it deals with a Jewish insurrection against foreign occupiers. The Jews were very politically savvy...I do, however, agree with Janine that watching one's thoughts is NOT a very good idea for obsessives....I'm Catholic as well, and to be honest, I think that many people dont have the capacity to watch their thoughts like the obsessive, anxious, hyper-intelligent people here. I'm one of five children, and other than my brother, who also has an anxiety disorder and is very intelligent, these teachings really dont bother anyone else in my family. I know because I've spoken to them about it. To be honest, I dont think its a teaching against individual thoughts- rather, its about controlling your desires, which ultimately motivate our actions. You cant have hate in your heart without eventually acting on it, the same with lust. In any case, I think its more about the spirit of the law rather than the letter- something many obsessive people have trouble grasping because in the end, its all about control. I know- that was me.

SC, your current state of mind has absolutely no bearing on your state of mind in the afterlife. I had this same thought when I was severely DP'ed, but no matter how you slice it, its not likely. If you are made of organic matter- which you are- when your (malfunctional) brain ceases firing electrical signals, well, thats it. If you dont have an afterlife, thats the end. If you do, well, no brain, no misfiring neurons, no DP. According to Catholic theology, the soul is imbued with all of the powers of the mind, but uses the body to "interface" with the world, so to speak. So you'll experience whatever your reward is with crystal clarity. If you've sown good things thats what you'll reap. Sown evil....well, I'm sure you havent. But this is a good time of life to figure out what you really believe in, and where you're headed. But don't worry about a DPed afterlife- if there IS mental illness after death, I have no doubt there are psychiatrists as well. Oh, wait, I think thats Hell....

Peace
Homeskooled

 

[terri*]

"But don't worry about a DPed afterlife- if there IS mental illness after death, I have no doubt there are psychiatrists as well. Oh, wait, I think thats Hell.... "

heeheehee...great humor where humor is needed.

Thanks, Homeskooled.

terri*

 

[Guest]

I am not really interested in this topic, but since I am bored ( as so often),
I will give my two cents on it.

I don't understand why people care about an afterlife.
If there is an afterlife, we will find out soon enough.
If there isn't, we will never find anything.

I personally don't even want to find out about death, because all I want is live here in this world.

Besides it is very unlikely that mental symptoms could be carried over on the other side, because if there is an other side, it is different from what we have here.

So I guess all we have here is not something we will find when dead physically.

Since we aren't aware of the other world, it must be different.

Also, if we continue to live after our physical death, I don't understand how DP can exist then since we obviously won't have a body anymore, so there isn't anything we could feel detached from.

I personally think that you, sc, don't feel connected to this world to such an extent that you ultimately relate to an other dimension, which is inevitably the death issue.
If you could relate to the here and now you would not be interested in an other life (or life after death) cause you would not want to have anything else but the life you have now, and that is a physical one.
Since you don't have a life, you worry about this non-life, and no life is death. But the worry is not brought to a halt arriving at the thought of death. It goes on like "but does the non-life (DP) exist in death? After Death? Always? Ever?"

It is the same with all those people who constantly dream about spending their imagined holidays on a tropical island. If they were satisfied with their lives, they would not want to escape to other places. They would want to live their lives instead of wanting to escape.

And even if satisfied people wanted to fly to a tropical island, they would not consider it a substitute, but rather an extension to their lives. That's just the opposite.

I don't intend to give any advice here because I don't have a clue myself, but , sc, I would say that you should focus on what you have instead of worrying about unreal things that you don't have.