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Dateline -- Fri, Sep 24

Did anybody catch this last night here in the States? It was called "Dangerous Web", and what they did was had investigators (of sorts) go to a Suburban house somewhere in the east, posing as a 14 year old girl online in chatrooms, and see how many adult males came over for sex. In 2 days some 18 guys came over. It was all filmed, quite awkward. One was a 23 year old schizophrenic, who had just gotten out of a mental institution, saying he was lonely and how he just wanted a girlfriend, just trying to get his Life together -- it was bullshit, he said, how they were doing this to him. Another was a 34 year old with 2 kids, he walked out when they told him it was going to be on TV. Another was this very slick (verbally) guy, whom, when he walked in, before seeing the girl, said (she was "in the other room"): you're 19, right? "No, I'm 14, like I told you.".... He replied "But as far as "I" know, you're 19, right?" He was trying to get out of any legal trouble, very very bad... You know he's a repeat offender.

When they all saw the Dateline host instead of a little girl they were shocked, almost all of them came up with excuses. Nearly all said it was their first time doing this. The guy described above with all the smooth talk said he was a TV reporter. The youngest guy was probably the schizo and an even younger looking guy. One, a NYC fire dept worker, sent an image of him jerking off online, and then came to the house, but called it off when he saw a cop car next door to the house. He was later confronted whilst leaving his job, totally screwed, and (they said) later arrested.

It was interesting. Oddly enough all I could think of throughout a lot of it was how this one mistake was going to ruin so many Lives, a few inparticular that got all the screen time. But I mean, they're the offenders... It's a cruel world. I then just kept thinking how this cruel society probably screwed them up, now they're paying the consequences, like most criminals. Oh my fatalistic worldview gets the best of me.

All in all, though, it was interesting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Dateline -- Fri, Sep 24

Did anybody catch this last night here in the States? It was called "Dangerous Web", and what they did was had investigators (of sorts) go to a Suburban house somewhere in the east, posing as a 14 year old girl online in chatrooms, and see how many adult males came over for sex. In 2 days some 18 guys came over. It was all filmed, quite awkward. One was a 23 year old schizophrenic, who had just gotten out of a mental institution, saying he was lonely and how he just wanted a girlfriend, just trying to get his Life together -- it was bullshit, he said, how they were doing this to him. Another was a 34 year old with 2 kids, he walked out when they told him it was going to be on TV. Another was this very slick (verbally) guy, whom, when he walked in, before seeing the girl, said (she was "in the other room"): you're 19, right? "No, I'm 14, like I told you.".... He replied "But as far as "I" know, you're 19, right?" He was trying to get out of any legal trouble, very very bad... You know he's a repeat offender.

When they all saw the Dateline host instead of a little girl they were shocked, almost all of them came up with excuses. Nearly all said it was their first time doing this. The guy described above with all the smooth talk said he was a TV reporter. The youngest guy was probably the schizo and an even younger looking guy. One, a NYC fire dept worker, sent an image of him jerking off online, and then came to the house, but called it off when he saw a cop car next door to the house. He was later confronted whilst leaving his job, totally screwed, and (they said) later arrested.

It was interesting. Oddly enough all I could think of throughout a lot of it was how this one mistake was going to ruin so many Lives, a few inparticular that got all the screen time. But I mean, they're the offenders... It's a cruel world. I then just kept thinking how this cruel society probably screwed them up, now they're paying the consequences, like most criminals. Oh my fatalistic worldview gets the best of me.

All in all, though, it was interesting.
 
G

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And people wonder why im cautious about giving info out over the internet. Of course i don't go into chat rooms and try to meet girls, but its just the principle that when you are online, a good portion of the time you really don't know who you are talking to. You do bring up a good point though, and i think alot of people who are sex offenders, were actually abused themselves as kids but never got help or treatment. That doesn't make it right but still.
 
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And people wonder why im cautious about giving info out over the internet. Of course i don't go into chat rooms and try to meet girls, but its just the principle that when you are online, a good portion of the time you really don't know who you are talking to. You do bring up a good point though, and i think alot of people who are sex offenders, were actually abused themselves as kids but never got help or treatment. That doesn't make it right but still.
 

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Jason, interesting. I was almost going to watch that, but was on the phone. But re: your comment:

It was interesting. Oddly enough all I could think of throughout a lot of it was how this one mistake was going to ruin so many Lives, a few inparticular that got all the screen time. But I mean, they're the offenders... It's a cruel world. I then just kept thinking how this cruel society probably screwed them up, now they're paying the consequences, like most criminals. Oh my fatalistic worldview gets the best of me.
I feel it is not society's fault. Society is made of individuals, and more important, families. Everyone of these men had a choice ... maybe I'll give the schizophrenic guy the benefit of his illness, but I didn't see the show. I'm glad they got nailed.

This type of program has been done before, and there is also a book about a serial killer who used the internet to find his victims. John Douglas, famous FBI profiler wrote about this.

I realize that society keeps throwing us curveballs, or rather throws curveballs at families who are trying to raise their kids to be safe from such things. Regardless of what anyone says, I feel very strongly it is up to parents to keep tabs on internet use.

No, I'm not a parent. I've taken care of kids for my friends a lot over the years. I know parenting is not easy. But families have the responsibility to teach their kids about all the dangers in the world, even unprotected sex, or driving without a seatbelt.

But these icky dudes. They knew what they were doing. Let 'em rot.

I have to say though, in defense of the internet, and perhaps in re: JC's question as to why people aren't more careful. I actually flew to London in 1999 to meet Hannah C., Andy (he never showed up), Martin (he broke his wrist, LOL), Cavan C., Ramon, and Nicole, whom I'd already met here in the U.S.

I also got more groups together in Los Angeles. Always best to meet at a very neutral, public location. But I never had a problem. Ultimately there were meetings at one person's Mom's house! And she joined in the conversation as she was concerned for her son!

We have to use caution re: everything in life. I agree. And we have to protect our kids, and take responsibility for ourselves. Also, I wouldn't meet someone I barely knew for sex ... that's rather dicey.

It's all a matter of being told how to protect ourselves, our boundaries as children, by our parents. And to be given healthy boundaries re: the ineternet, TV, dating, etc., etc., etc.

And even then, shit happens.

"Sad world, mad world."
Best,
D :shock:
Waiting for rice to cook. ACH. LOL.
 

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Jason, interesting. I was almost going to watch that, but was on the phone. But re: your comment:

It was interesting. Oddly enough all I could think of throughout a lot of it was how this one mistake was going to ruin so many Lives, a few inparticular that got all the screen time. But I mean, they're the offenders... It's a cruel world. I then just kept thinking how this cruel society probably screwed them up, now they're paying the consequences, like most criminals. Oh my fatalistic worldview gets the best of me.
I feel it is not society's fault. Society is made of individuals, and more important, families. Everyone of these men had a choice ... maybe I'll give the schizophrenic guy the benefit of his illness, but I didn't see the show. I'm glad they got nailed.

This type of program has been done before, and there is also a book about a serial killer who used the internet to find his victims. John Douglas, famous FBI profiler wrote about this.

I realize that society keeps throwing us curveballs, or rather throws curveballs at families who are trying to raise their kids to be safe from such things. Regardless of what anyone says, I feel very strongly it is up to parents to keep tabs on internet use.

No, I'm not a parent. I've taken care of kids for my friends a lot over the years. I know parenting is not easy. But families have the responsibility to teach their kids about all the dangers in the world, even unprotected sex, or driving without a seatbelt.

But these icky dudes. They knew what they were doing. Let 'em rot.

I have to say though, in defense of the internet, and perhaps in re: JC's question as to why people aren't more careful. I actually flew to London in 1999 to meet Hannah C., Andy (he never showed up), Martin (he broke his wrist, LOL), Cavan C., Ramon, and Nicole, whom I'd already met here in the U.S.

I also got more groups together in Los Angeles. Always best to meet at a very neutral, public location. But I never had a problem. Ultimately there were meetings at one person's Mom's house! And she joined in the conversation as she was concerned for her son!

We have to use caution re: everything in life. I agree. And we have to protect our kids, and take responsibility for ourselves. Also, I wouldn't meet someone I barely knew for sex ... that's rather dicey.

It's all a matter of being told how to protect ourselves, our boundaries as children, by our parents. And to be given healthy boundaries re: the ineternet, TV, dating, etc., etc., etc.

And even then, shit happens.

"Sad world, mad world."
Best,
D :shock:
Waiting for rice to cook. ACH. LOL.
 

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Ooops, met Simon, too, who had us over to his Mum's house! It was amazing. I was just there 4 days. But I knew there would be unconditional acceptance, and I trusted all the people. Hannah, Nicole, Ramon and I stayed at Hannah's apartment, along with her roommates. It was wonderful.

And wow, we went to a pub in Cambridge together. We talked, we cried, we laughed. And Hannah took me to Cambridge... my Lord is that beautiful.

I love Europe. The next "state" over is another country! Cavan is from Scotland, Ramon from The Netherlands. It was a wonderful international DP convention! Did get to talk w/Andy on the phone.

Shame on Martin to have missed the thing! :)
Next time Martin! Absolutely.
L,
D :shock:
 

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Ooops, met Simon, too, who had us over to his Mum's house! It was amazing. I was just there 4 days. But I knew there would be unconditional acceptance, and I trusted all the people. Hannah, Nicole, Ramon and I stayed at Hannah's apartment, along with her roommates. It was wonderful.

And wow, we went to a pub in Cambridge together. We talked, we cried, we laughed. And Hannah took me to Cambridge... my Lord is that beautiful.

I love Europe. The next "state" over is another country! Cavan is from Scotland, Ramon from The Netherlands. It was a wonderful international DP convention! Did get to talk w/Andy on the phone.

Shame on Martin to have missed the thing! :)
Next time Martin! Absolutely.
L,
D :shock:
 
G

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Its just such a fucked up world we live in. I mean people like the ones who were caught on Dateline, are the way they are for a reason. Its not like they were born perverts or rapists or whatever. There is a reason as to why they are how they are and i think that if more people could get help & could be guided in the right direction, there would be less people like this. Everyone is born innocent, its your environment that can corrupt you and i know this from seeing it on a first hand basis.

True story, this kid used to live up the street from me, He wasn't a bad kid i don't think, but his father sold drugs, his older brother sold drugs, even his mom sold drugs. And he was exposed to that life at an early age so when he got older what do you think he got involved with??? The last i heard of him, was that he's locked up as an accesory to homicide or something like that. Imagine if from an early age he was pointed in the right direction by someone?? If all you see is negativity, thats how your going to end up living.
 
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Its just such a fucked up world we live in. I mean people like the ones who were caught on Dateline, are the way they are for a reason. Its not like they were born perverts or rapists or whatever. There is a reason as to why they are how they are and i think that if more people could get help & could be guided in the right direction, there would be less people like this. Everyone is born innocent, its your environment that can corrupt you and i know this from seeing it on a first hand basis.

True story, this kid used to live up the street from me, He wasn't a bad kid i don't think, but his father sold drugs, his older brother sold drugs, even his mom sold drugs. And he was exposed to that life at an early age so when he got older what do you think he got involved with??? The last i heard of him, was that he's locked up as an accesory to homicide or something like that. Imagine if from an early age he was pointed in the right direction by someone?? If all you see is negativity, thats how your going to end up living.
 

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Holy Moly,
Yes I saw that. That was creepy beyond belief. I was over my friend's house when I saw it, and it was disgusting. That fireman was lying through his teeth, too- you could tell.

Exponentially,
Grant with an "errrr?"
 

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Holy Moly,
Yes I saw that. That was creepy beyond belief. I was over my friend's house when I saw it, and it was disgusting. That fireman was lying through his teeth, too- you could tell.

Exponentially,
Grant with an "errrr?"
 

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In canada where incidentally, the legal age is 14 (i could be wrong...i haven't actually verified this, but this is what i've been told), we have something called "entrapment". The concept of this is that the very people who would have committed the crime, wouldn't have done so had they not been induced to do so by the po-lice. This is most probably a fallacious argument, as these people would have found some other avenue to fulfill their lustful desires, but there is something to this and how it hinges on that fundamental principle of western jurisprudence which bases everything on the PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE. I used caps there because i feel it has to be shouted sometimes.

Now, i didn't see the show, and so i don't know whether the issue became a legal one or whether it was just to show the dangers of the internet by that harbinger of investigative journalism, Frontline (love the show...love PBS). But if these people were arrested, it sounds like entrapment to me, and i don't think it's right.

I also feel that a lot of people are quick to villify others for thinking of teenagers as sexual objects, when not so long ago 12 year olds were entering into wedlock, and much older men were concubining with much younger girls. i don't mean to suggest that i think it's ok for older men to try to seduce or coerce younger girls into bed or anything, but others shouldn't be so quick to lump these people in the same group as child molestors and the like. I mean, biologically speaking, teenagers are as viable sexually as anyone over the current legal age. The reason society makes the distinction is based on an emotional underdevelopment...and the propensity for teenagers to enter into things in a not-so lucid state of mind.

I just felt that something had to be said to attain balance before this thread turned into a lynching.

s.
 

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OH BOIIII. :?

sebastian. im not going to get into a debate with you about this. but alot of the things you just said are all the justifications that pedophiles use to guise their intentions. i really dont get on here enough to debate this topic so i would suggest you log onto perverted justice and check out the PJ forums. you can debate this all you want in there.

http://www.perverted-justice.com/

thinking like this is dangerous. not just for the kids.. but for the ones who think this way in the first place. best to be informed.
 

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well SB,

it's a shame you don't want to debate this on here because i would quite like to.

Again, i didn't see the program so i don't know the specifics. Did the officer actually initiate the whole thing or was it the person who was trying to procure sex from the girl? If it was the man who sought out and suggested it, then i have no problem with it and i think the cops did a good job...but if it was the cop who initiated it...that's entrapment, and i strongly disagree with it.

It's funny because i watched Law & Order last night and it touched on this issue briefly, but in the context of arms dealing. I don't know...call me old fashioned, but i really don't like to see the police having the power to go out and "create" criminals.

anyway...i think this is an interesting topic. i think i'll check out that site you suggested.

s.
 

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Sebastian,
I saw the Law and Order myself last night! Yes a good example. I have no problem with it. Yes, in a court of law here, one can argue "entrapment" and I believe people can be acquitted by using that defense.

However, the reason police use such "sting" operations is that these people who are "forced" to commit crimes have frequently already committed similar crimes. And it is pretty much agreed upon (don't quote me) that pedophilia in particular has a huge recidivism rate... how the heck do you spell that.

Anyway, playing the other side of this, if you were selling black-market guns and someone approached you to buy some, you'd be selling them anyway. If the cops catch you in the act, you're nailed. There really is no other direct way to connect such a crime to an individual, they have to be caught in the act. Better use the cops than civilians to pose as buyers, no?

I find pedophiles and sex offenders particularly vile, and crime in general ... well obviously I'm against it, LOL.

Here's a question then. Taking the "Law and Order" episode as an example. By law, how can we control black market gun sales by not using sting operations? I'm sure there are other ways, but I'm just asking you, as :twisted: avdocate to propoose a plan.

Like selling drugs to minors. Using 8 year old children as "lookouts" in drug deals.... how do you control this. Also, you can't capture a burglar unless s/he is caught in the act or if enough circumstantial evidence is presented.

The law, in theory is indeed meant to promote Innocent Until Proven Guilty. In theory that works pretty well (especially now that we have genetic tesing for rapes, etc.). Even someone arrested for a crime can go to trial and be found innocent (even if they're not).

And the worst case scenario, which gets my goat, is O.J. Simpson walking the streets. I KNOW he murdered 2 people. I watched the entire trial on TV (going through a rather bad depression). He was also found guilty in CIVIL court... owes money to both victims' families.

Curious though. If you had a 12 year old daughter (I didn't see that special either) who was "chatting" with a rapist disguised as a 13 year old boyfriend (internet anonymity), whose true identity is a 25 year old rapist or pedophile, how would you react if your daughter was abducted and raped? How could it have been prevented in this new age of technology.

True, in the past, humans lived to be 30 and married at 12. That doesn't happen today. It's a different world. I needn't go into all that.

Best,
D
 
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