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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
DP/DR = a symptom

neglecting:
your true feelings hence self-actualization

THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE DOING!

Focusing on the symptom gets you further away from THE PROBLEM.

The SYMPTOM becomes the problem...

And you start to think that DP/DR is the problem...And you moan about:
  • fluorescent lights
    fast moving objects
    buildings crashing on you
    melting with yourself
    anxiety
    etc
    etc
You have a problem. And it is not DP. It is anxiety.

Anxious to flee - anxious to kill. You are a rabbit caught in a light. Trembling with fear - rationalizing away the sensations. You see the guy with the gun and light. A normal rabbit would run! And what we are doing is thinking about that bloody light...

CURE: GET A LIFE!

And run...SOMEWHERE!

:wink:
 

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he knows...he's recovered

and he's right

it takes a while

but get a fuck ing life, to put it nicely 8)

actually i am gonna bring up something he (des) said a long time ago: do the things you're most afraid to do (ask your crush out, confront someone you have been resenting, ask for something, travel to another city, etc).

not only will you have more FUN in doing these things you fear, you also will forget about your SYMPTOMS. and you will be on the way to recovery.
 
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Hola gang...
Always remember...if you cant change your situation, change your attitude. This you can control!

I wish you all well.

TONY
 

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as much as dp/dr is a bitch and a half, it also makes some things seem easy.

Regular things that I used to be nervous of I laugh at and I say if i can get through dp/dr this is a joke. Basically going through such a terrify experience makes other things seem very easy.
 

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i totally disagree with you about its just anxiety how can it be when all im doing is sitting reading, watching television, even having a nice relaxing bath i aint anxious at all

i know what anxiety is believe me i feel anxious because of the dp/dr when i dont have the dp/dr i feel on top of the world!!!!!!
 

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Des said:
DP/DR = a symptom

neglecting:
your true feelings hence self-actualization

THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE DOING!

Focusing on the symptom gets you further away from THE PROBLEM.

The SYMPTOM becomes the problem...

And you start to think that DP/DR is the problem...And you moan about:
  • fluorescent lights
    fast moving objects
    buildings crashing on you
    melting with yourself
    anxiety
    etc
    etc
You have a problem. And it is not DP. It is anxiety.

Anxious to flee - anxious to kill. You are a rabbit caught in a light. Trembling with fear - rationalizing away the sensations. You see the guy with the gun and light. A normal rabbit would run! And what we are doing is thinking about that bloody light...

CURE: GET A LIFE!

And run...SOMEWHERE!

:wink:
"Depersonalization disorder appears to be a distinct psychiatric disorder, not just a part of anxiety, depression, borderline personality, or some other psychiatric condition, Daphne Simeon, M.D., an associate professor of psychiatry at Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York City and another of the few researchers scrutinizing depersonalization, told Psychiatric News."

Wow. Apparently she doesn't know what she's talking about.
 

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But there's a difference between depersonalization disorder and depersonalization as a symptom. Dp Disorder is pretty rare from what I can tell, and I'm also of the idea that the majority of dp/dr is anxiety related. Good thread and fighting the anxiety is as far as I can see the main way out of all of this.
 

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I think he is right and sometimes now when I am feeling close to normal , the fear kicks in, what Am I so afraid of that I would choose to be disconnected like this, Anxiety brought all of this on... So I should do what I fear instead of making it a bigger monster.

I believe that in some aspects we choose to remain like this and suffer because it is easier the living. It doesn't feel as good, but you don't feel much of anything like this.

I know someones is going to be pissed off when I say I wonder if we choose to remain stuck.... but I do wonder if on some level we will ourselves to stay this way instead of letting go and going for the ride called life....
 

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There sure does seem to be that relationship somewhere with anxiety and dr/dp. But I too have spent many years working on my anxiety. Four therapists, all long term, could not help me touch thedp/dr. All four worked directy with anxiety, and some others (psychotherapsits) efforts worked with childhood issues, self esteeme etc. I tried all known anxiety reduction techniques such as flooding, exposure, habituation, biofeedback, relaxation techniues, orthomolecular vitamin therapy, vigorous excercise, diets, cbt, rational emotive therapy, became deepely spiritual for five years.. I tried msot of the antidepressants and all the benzoes and even some atypical antipsychotics. And yes I even went out and got a life many times over, thank you. But the short of it is that anxiety was addressed and reduced. General well being increased. But dp/dr was never touched. I also quit focusing on symptoms years ago. I do not dwell on symptoms. I still have dr/dp and it comes with no triggers.

I do not doubt anyone who makes claims like the above posts and am happy things have gotten better for them. But at same time, it behooves me to understand why it is so tenacious here for so many when some like me have covered all those bases along time ago. Dp/dr is a separate entity for me. It may at one time been more closely linked dynamically to anxiety and obsession, who knows, but now it is its own beast regardless. I do not know how to understand any differently,
jft
 

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I have to say as a 15 year ( give or take, at this point I try not to "celebrate" the anniversary :? )survivor of DR, I have to agree with Tom and JFT. I no longer suffer any undue anxiety from all my prior behavior patterns...

"Focusing on the symptom gets you further away from THE PROBLEM.

The SYMPTOM becomes the problem...

And you start to think that DP/DR is the problem...And you moan about:

fluorescent lights
fast moving objects
buildings crashing on you
melting with yourself
anxiety
etc
etc

You have a problem. And it is not DP. It is anxiety.

Anxious to flee - anxious to kill. You are a rabbit caught in a light. Trembling with fear - rationalizing away the sensations. You see the guy with the gun and light. A normal rabbit would run! And what we are doing is thinking about that bloody light... "

Been there, did it, stopped.

I do have a life... a pretty big one, actually. I suffer bouts of anxiety only when they are going to do something like give me a spinal epidural ( :shock: scared me bad! ) and other normal times when anxiety is to be expected.

And yet, and yet I say, I tell you my world "looks" the same way it has all those moons ago. I have DR. I do not have anxiety.

I do agree for those that have not come to some kind of "peace" with the beast, that all the things that are recommended to calm anxiety/dp/dr down are exactly what works. I just can't agree on the which came first, the chicken or the egg, issue.

So that is how it is for me. I hope for all those who are suffering badly at this point, they can someday at least reach peace, if not complete cure.

Most sincerely,
terri
SBC Solidarity
 

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I have fairly normal anxiety levels, I'm rarely depressed, and I have a life that I really enjoy. I also have DPD. I found the thread annoying if not downright insulting. If you cure a DPD person of all their anxiety, you'll have an anxiety-free person with DPD. Even in the realm of a DP/DR forum, DPD is misunderstood. Amazing.

From http://www.onlineparadigm.com/archives/233-SP03_BD.pdf :

"The prevalence of DPD in the general population is notknown, but it is probably more common than its usual label
as a ?rare? disorder implies. Indirect estimates suggest 1 or
2 percent prevalence, not unlike schizophrenia or bipolardisorder
, yet DPD is rarely diagnosed. There are probably
several factors that figure into the underdiagnosis of the
condition. Limited familiarity on the part of many
clinicians; a patient tendency to be reluctant about
symptom disclosure due to fear of not being understood,
sounding ?crazy? or a difficulty in putting depersonalization
experiences into words; and a tendency of clinicians to
diagnose depersonalization as a variant of ?depression? or
?anxiety? ? even when the diagnosis of a distinct condition
is clearly warranted."


"[The first depersonalization experience ] can be after a
prolonged period of severe stress and adjustment efforts or
after a traumatic event with the initial episode of another
mental condition such as panic disorder or depression. However, when these resolve the depersonalization continues."
 

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LISA NICHOLS said:
this is the thing everyone says its cause by stress i have had it since i were 5/6 what kind of stress can a 5/6 year old have to trigger these off?????? i had a happy childhood from what i can remember :D
Monsters under the bed! That's about all I can remember worrying about at that age. Oh, and getting a tetanus shot. I hated those.

5 or 6? You've had this since you were 5 or 6?
 

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"[The first depersonalization experience ] can be after a
prolonged period of severe stress and adjustment efforts or
after a traumatic event with the initial episode of another
mental condition such as panic disorder or depression. However, when these resolve the depersonalization continues."
that's not necessarily true. some people have recovered here when they resolved their underlying issues.

sure beats discussing symptoms all day...
 

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Discussing symptoms is really easy, no work required there.

Following some of your suggestions Person3, "asking crush out..." that is the WORK. And many people here are not yet putting work into their own recovery. So they remain sick.

Many of us who have recovered fully from DP/DR did it kicking and screaming all the way through. But in the end, WE HAD TO CHANGE SOME THINGS IN OUR LIVES. Different things for each of us, but it always had to do with the parts of ourselves we had neglected and covered over that continued to keep HAUNTING us until we faced them.

And once we began facing those unwanted and distasteful parts of ourselves, our lives very gradually improved.

ASK ANY RECOVERED PERSON HERE. IT NEVER WAS THE RIGHT COMBINATION OF DRUGS THAT SOLVED ALL OF OUR PROBLEMS. IT BEGAN WHEN WE TOOK ON FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR OUR OWN RECOVERY.
 

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actually when you combine ecstacy and coke you get a massive---

oh wait nevermind

that's not productive is it

well during my dp career i had a lot more fun combining various street drugs than combining prescriptions, i guess because none of that stuff was going to cure me.

but god damn, guys. i could be the AUTHORITY on dpd here. I could have done research on every man, woman, child, and abortion (*) in search of more info on dee pee dee. I could publish papers. I could tell you that you couldn't cure dp without curing the anxiety or that the anxiety and the dp are unrelated or that you put the lime in the coconut and drink it all up and ASKDGIJHAIOWENASIDGDS IT DOESNT MATTER!

But good ol' kicking and screaming...

I'll tell you...For a year or two I lived in an awful blur of hell. Where things were "stabilized". Not super bad and not great at all. I went through many days in half-existence, laid low, got a bit of fun, logged hours on the internet...still had DP, drugs helped the symptoms a little...progress? barely.

I didn't do any WORK on my self. I didn't know HOW to do any work on myself. I didn't know WHAT THE HELL TO DO. I would have posted the same, two or three years ago, to Des, with something like "you are a daft bastard who obviously doesn't know dpd and all the scholarly research involved in it etc etc"

But for me to tell the truth to some of the men and women in my life whom I was manipulating? For me to admit to A LOT of lies? For me to do things that scared the crap out of me? I didn't do it. I didn't know that was a solution.

Two/three years ago, I still thought that once i got outta DP jail, i'd go right back to trying to date a certain guy and go right back to some college major I was in for the wrong reasons (basically ones of narcissistic nature), and that I would SHOW all those people who thought i was crazy, i'd show them when i became successful and healthy, and I would go right back to getting the hell out of town and going to the coast to complete my dreams.

And I really hate that I keep harping on Mr Des, but a little post of his put a big dent in my plans, and probably saved my life. (Janine had many a wonderful post as well, but i wouldn't really understand what she was saying [except for blah blah blah don't self monitor blah blah KIDDING JANINE :D ] until this guy came along, and i really wish the old board wasn't gone because Jewels posts helped me very much as well)

he basically said things like "do what you're afraid of"
"be honest, tell people how you REALLY feel instead of being an actor"

and really, it wasn't Des's words; people in all SORTS of recovery programs say that stuff every day. But no one ever brought it to the attention of the DP'd folk.

and he said something about how your world would become beautiful and scary.

and i really thought about this one. a few months later, after reading a book about honesty, i started really implementing this stuff.

my time was up. i had to start telling people how i felt. i had to start doing things like saying NO when I didn't want to do something they asked me to. I had to learn to tell people why i was upset instead of just avoiding them (i'm still stuck on stuff like this, don't get me wrong). i had to play less control games and realize that my manipulations didn't work. i had to actually leave the house to go out into the world and possibly make a FOOL out of myself. I had to take risks, like play in a group sport i wasn't good at (instead of hanging out with a bunch of people i KNEW i could impress). I had to live some of the dreams i always had in my head (like singing in public and taking an acting class.) I had to LIVE this life, because there was no end to the amount of time DP would stay if i waited for its departure before i started living again.

all that started a year and a half ago, give or take.

how was that last year and a half, compared to the years before that of hellish but predictable complacence?

well, honestly, the last year and a half has been the absolute worst hell ever. I have had bouts of the bloodiest of bloodiest anxiety, e-mails to trusted friends of "I AM REALLY GONNA KILL MYSELF THIS TIME LIFE WILL NEVER GET BETTER AAAAAGH!", I have had MASSIVE dissapointments, sick relationships, horrifying family fights, prescription drug abuse, my world turned upside down every five minutes, emails to a certain DP board member with message titles such as "HELP HELP HELP", "PLEEEEEEEEEEEASE HELP" and "AAAAGH HELP!"

I have had times of curling up on the cold bathroom floor at school, crashing out on random couches, fits of screaming, crying rage in the hands of well-meaning strangers, xanax induced twilight tranquility a few hours later, misfortune upon misfortune upon misfortune and EVERY DAY A GOD DAMNED BLOODY PANIC THAT HURT LIKE A MOTHER FUCK ER

so, do i regret it?

no. I am thankful for it with every fiber of my being. I didn't realize how MUCH i would be kicking and screaming. YES, life has been SO, INCREDIBLY scary, like Des promised in that post...

but it has been beautiful too, like he said.

I believe, i HOPE, that i have started to make some of the first REAL friends I have ever had. I have accomplished SO many different things I really couldn't count them all. I met a ton of new friends, teachers, and other great people. I have had some of the craziest experiences...I got out feelings to people that I kept inside me for half a decade...i got to sing in public 8)

I learned about myself.

I became more trusting of myself (well, at least a tiny bit)

I started to see (and break away, hopefully it will last) from many of the sick relationships i was in and I have become more keen at spotting new ones before they get far

I have started to set boundaries.

I have accepted some really lame psychobabble terms like "setting boundaries".

I have gotten to know my family better.

I have done so many things i was afraid of, and i had fun at them. i became a better dancer, a better listener (well, a TINY bit), and hopefully a better friend.

I actually ask people how THEY are. sometimes.

and you know what? last night i went out to a party that held NO expectatiosn for me, that held NO chance of meeting a guy or being recognized for whatever greatness I feel I have, just a party with people I used to cast off as completely boring.

and last night i had fun.

i feel that little change has been like a deliverance from the depths of hell. the depths of my own hell.

that subtle, TINY, change took a year and a half of the most gut wrenching horrors outside of DP itself (i was not cured from DP at all, but these horrors were different).

That little change cost my family hundreds of dollars in therapy (although therapy is not where I healed anyway), as well as hundreds of dollars on some pretty interesting medical procedures ( the lighter one being a crowdsurfing accident because I drunkenly decided that I needed to confront my fear of crowdsurfing 8) got dropped on my tailbone, dang)

that little change cost most of my entire way of life.

that little change cost me an incredible amount of heartache and tears, mostly over my own expectations and delusions.

but that change represented a glimpse into REALITY, where i was a small part of a bigger world and not in my own fantasy world.

yes. kicking and screaming. it has been catastrophic. but it has also been so much fun, even in those catastrophic moments, even in the drug induced craziness, even in the bad breakups it has been SO MUCH MORE INCREDIBLY AMAZING THAN SITTING AT THE GOD DAMNED COMPUTER PROVING TO PEOPLE THAT DPD COULD ONLY BE CURED IN SUCH AND SUCH WAY AND THAT WHOEVER OBJECTED TO THAT IDEA, RECOVERED OR NOT, WAS MEAN WRONG AND INSENSITIVE AND GOD DAMNIT I WOULD RATHER BE RIGHT THAN BE HAPPY!

(but do acutal work to change myself? naaaaaaaaah, don't need to do that. I'll just wait for a cure.)

slowly clawing and scratching for the slightest scraps of change, rising and falling on the way, taking some risks and learning, although hellish, has also been the ride of my life, has taken me to places physically and mentally i would have NEVER imagined years ago...

so. if you want to sit here and worry about the definition of DP and what the good doctors of the world say, great. you have a master's thesis.

but if you want this stuff to have any benefit for your SELF, you're gonna have to forget about ALL of that shit and start doing things that you would never imagine doing.

the things you fear most.

anything else would be suicide.

*phrase lovingly stolen from someone who saved me when i was responsible and killed me when i wasn't
 

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"...SITTING AT THE GOD DAMNED COMPUTER PROVING TO PEOPLE THAT DPD COULD ONLY
BE CURED IN SUCH AND SUCH WAY AND THAT WHOEVER OBJECTED
TO THAT IDEA, RECOVERED OR NOT, WAS MEAN WRONG AND
INSENSITIVE AND GOD DAMNIT I WOULD RATHER BE RIGHT THAN
BE HAPPY!"

You got that right! Like in that original post in which that guy made the pronouncement that:

" DP/DR = a symptom
neglecting: your true feelings hence self-actualization
THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE DOING!
CURE: GET A LIFE!"
 

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yeah dont get me wrong i dont wallow in self pity and spend alll my life watching all the topics on this forum lol :D

i do force myself to go out god if i didnt i would be a hermit believe me!!

ok fair enough i may freak out nine times outta ten and likely to pay for it the next day or so but at least i got out !!!!!
:D :D
 
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