[fingertingle]

Dp/dr is NOT (?) considered a psychotic disorder.

So...why are people prescribed anti-psychotics?

Good chance is, I'm wrong. :/

 

[Tom Servo]

You are correct, Sir (Ma'am?).

 

[Guest]

Why is anyone prescribed such antiquated, brutal things such as anti-psychotics? More often than not the side-effects are awful, and they only work on 60% of the population. They turn living people into little more than manageable drones and should be abolished.

But why are they prescribed to people with DP? It's hard to say. That's negligence to me.

 

[Guest]

The old anti-psychotics were informally called "major tranquilizers" and they can have a powerful (and sometimes) calming effect on overwhelming anxiety states (psychotic or not).

There are other reasons, as well, why they may be prescribed - sometimes the obsessive ideas of a person caught up in their own self-monitoring can reach crippling levels. Sometimes an anti-psychotic reduces the "grip" those thoughts have over someone.

Like any psyche med, all we can do is TRY it and see if it works on a given condition.

DP/DR is not a psychotic condition. But there are also symptom "cross-overs" like with most disorders - a psychotic person MIGHT also have DP or DR, just like they also likely suffer anxiety.

 

[Tom Servo]

Oh, I didn't see the second question in your post. Are anit-psychotics still tried for DP/DR? They were the first things I was given way back when. They didn't do anything other than give me awful side-effects. They didn't affect me mentally at all, not even large doses of (gag!) Haldol. Are they EVER successful in treating DP/DR? I saw Dawn's Highways figure of 60%. Is that for DP/DR, or for psychosis?

 

[Dreamer]

The old anti-psychotics were informally called "major tranquilizers" and they can have a powerful (and sometimes) calming effect on overwhelming anxiety states (psychotic or not).

There are other reasons, as well, why they may be prescribed - sometimes the obsessive ideas of a person caught up in their own self-monitoring can reach crippling levels. Sometimes an anti-psychotic reduces the "grip" those thoughts have over someone.

Like any psych med, all we can do is TRY it and see if it works on a given condition.

DP/DR is not a psychotic condition. But there are also symptom "cross-overs" like with most disorders - a psychotic person MIGHT also have DP or DR, just like they also likely suffer anxiety.

I'd say that's spot on.....

Taking a med for a specific condition doesn't mean you have that
condition. Examples below from a worn out person who needs to
research to distract herself.

See http://www.rxlist.com and if anyone here is a
glutton for punishment you might enjoy, The Chemistry of Mind
Altering Drugs: History, Pharmacology, and Cultural Context
and explain all of those cool chemical configurations to me :shock:
(Daniel M. Perrine, American Chemical Society).

one needs to know Chemistry to understand how any of these drugs
work, and even then, researchers don't know how they work, but they
see results in various conditions. If chemists know only a bit
about how these drugs work, well.... we can't know much at all.

Sometimes wish I were a chemist, or a forensic CSI agent. -- need
to know a lot of Chem there.

Doctors and researchers have been making "serendipitous"
discoveries with Rx meds since.. well since there were meds.. which
as far back as history goes. The ancient Greeks and Egyptians were
performing medicine, surgery, even psychology (The Four Humours --
describing the "four personality types.")

I believe the first real "drug" that ended up being employed in
medicine was opium, and that was discovered to work, well through
recreational use...and use in tribal custom to attain religious
enlightenment. A great sedative and anti-emetic of all things.

Many medications that were developed for one condition years ago
or even recently are found to be effective in treating other
conditions. Taking an anti-psychotic doesn't mean you're
psychotic.

Examples:
-- antidepressant Wellbutrin marketed as
Zyban is used to help curb smoking addiction. They marketed
it under another name so smokers wouldn't think they were "crazy".

"No this isn't an antidepressant it's an anti-smoking med."

Wellbutrin is also used to help with Menopausal symptoms.
------------------------------------------------------

-- People here take Lamictal, Neurontin, Depakote, Tegretol --
anticonvulsants and their DP/DR/anxiety is dramatically improbed.
These are anti-convulsants. Doesn't mean the person has epilepsy.

I personally know one person here whose DP/DR was cleared up by
Neurontin.
------------------------------------------------------

Haldol - Halperidol is not under the anti-psychotic category
as mentioned, but is considered a tranquilizer. It's
effectiveness is unknown on calming psychotic patients.

"Haloperidol blocks the effects of dopamine and increases its
turnover rate; however, the precise mechanism of action is
unknown."

Brand Name: HALDOL
Generic Name: HALOPERIDOL
Drug Class: TRANQUILIZERS

It's indications for useage are in schizophrenics -- who have
psychotic episodes, but who have coginitive disorders, and a whole
host of other symptoms including anxiety and agitation which can be
controlled with HIGH doses of this med -- no one w/out
schizophrenia could tolerate a high dose of this. Schizophrenic
brains do.

--------------------------------------------

Brand Name: SEROQUEL
Generic Name: QUETIAPINE FUMARATE
Drug Class: ANTIPSYCHOTICS

"SEROQUEL is indicated for the treatment of acute manic episodes
associated with bipolar I disorder, as either monotherapy or
adjunct therapy to lithium or divalproex."

(My cousin who has severe bipolar and schizoaffective disorder
takes 4 drugs, one of them is Seroquel.)

"SEROQUEL is ALSO indicated for the treatment of schizophrenia.
The efficacy of SEROQUEL in schizophrenia was established in
short-term (6-week) controlled trials of schizophrenic inpatients
"
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Psychosis is a very specific symptom and can occur in more than
schizophrenia.
----------------------------------------------------

3 doctors have suggested I try Abilify, and I don't want to ... yet
... but it is not labeled an "antipsychotic." And that really

doesn't matter anyway.
Brand Name: Abilify
Generic Name: aripiprazole
Drug Class: TRANQUILIZERS

The mechanism of action of aripiprazole, as with other drugs
having efficacy in schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, is
unknown.

However, it has been proposed that the efficacy of aripiprazole is
mediated through a combination of partial agonist activity at D2
and 5-HT1A receptors and antagonist activity at 5-HT2A receptors.

Actions at receptors other than D2, 5-HT1A, and 5-HT2A may explain
some of the other clinical effects of aripiprazole, eg, the
orthostatic hypotension observed with aripiprazole may be explained
by its antagonist activity at adrenergic alpha1 receptors.

-------------------------------------------

End of short and incomplete lecture.

Doctors these days are trying SMALL doses of antipsychotics on
those of us w/DP/DR. Some actually believe... and I think this is
a gross misunderstanding that DP/DR are symptoms of psychosis. I
think that is totally wrong.
Others see them as symptoms of severe anxiety ... I'm more likely
to buy into that. And using them in VERY small doses, not the
doses used by those with bipolar/schizophrenia, etc., can help
DP/DR in some patients.
---------------------------------------------------------

I forgot who said these medications are old and barbaric, but the thing is there is no cure for schizophrenia and some of these tried and true drugs are mainstays for maintenance of highly sick patients.

My cousin needs four medications, none of which I'd care to use, for his mania and schizoaffective symptoms. Without them he cannot function and ends up in the hospital. With them, though on disability, he works under the table as a mechanic. A very good one.

You would never know he's loaded with medications that would knock us to the floor. He needs them. They are all that's available right now. He is willing to take the risk/benefit. In the days before this combination he would be in a mental institution.

Also shock therapy is still used... not the way it looks in "Cuckoo's Nest" and it can be very effective on treatment resistent depression and depression in the elderly.

Nothing is simple or cut and dried.

One patient at a time.
We're all unique.

Dreamer
The research fanatic, who doesn't understand all she reads about
but tries. Very hard! 8)

PS: Tom, I was on Stellazine and something else VERY briefly w/an "anxiety specialist" -- worst DP/DR from a med ever!

 

[jake]

Hey all;
I was prescibed Mellaril an anti-psychotic at a very low dose back in 1987 b/cuz I was having horrible anxiety and panic, insomnia..

I was sober five years and even then they didn't want to go the benzo route with me. And no anti-depressants were even mentioned. I have anxiety and depression REALLY closely related. Anyway Mellaril was pretty bad w/side affects and I despised taking anything really but I was desperate. I did get some sleep finally.

Fast forward to 2005 and in July my psychiatrist added 25 mg. of Seroquel to my Clonopin and Remeron, and she increased both of those as well--had not had an increase in 5 or 6 years. So this Seroquel is for sleep, anxiety, and she said it would help "organize my thoughts." I told her about the racing thoughts.

I'm not psychotic but it is always scary I think for me to be put on one of these just b/cuz of that stigma and fear of the word. My Mom suffered untreated for the most part, with paranoid schiz. I've said it b-4 but it bears repeating. I am so glad I didn't get that from her.

At the same time I can't imagine living ona nd on in the state I have been in past year and half. New meds put a little dent in feeling overwhelmed and do little for DP itself. All I can do is keep trying to work it out and trust I WILL be ok again someday. Meanwhile coping ONLY with help of meds.

 

[fingertingle]

I wanted to go into forensics before I was sure I was going brain dead. Thank you for all of this information, it was so interesting I forced myself to concentrate ----
I was wondering about the depakote too -- a friend of mine is on it for bipolar disorder
and my sister is taking rispridol (sp?) for schizoaffective (which I guess there is controversy over it even being a "real" diagnosis) but she's also been put on wellbutrin, klonopin, depakote, seroquel (before/after her official diagnosis) and a variety of other meds... It all mixes up in my mind...

I agree that the symptom needs to be treated and that everyone is different but I also agree that anti-psychotics can do more harm than good in some cases. For the most part, I just see my sister in her zombie state and half the time she's sleeping... so I'm weary of anti-psychotics (for myself -as well as others) esp. since I don't experience any delusional thinking or hallucinations. It just seems my sister is so much happier off drugs, even though she has more episodes -- but the look in her eyes, on meds, is so lost and scared, its horrible She doesn't even respond to me anymore...she just stares blankly off into space.

Sorry if this is all over the place, it feels like my brain is floating in battery acid.

 

[Dreamer]

For the most part, I just see my sister in her zombie state and half the time she's sleeping... so I'm weary of anti-psychotics (for myself -as well as others) esp. since I don't experience any delusional thinking or hallucinations. It just seems my sister is so much happier off drugs, even though she has more episodes -- but the look in her eyes, on meds, is so lost and scared, its horrible She doesn't even respond to me anymore...she just stares blankly off into space.

Sorry to hear about everyone's difficulties here. As I always say, nothing comes out of a clear blue sky. My sense is that mental illness can run in a family and it doesn't have to be the same disorder, variations thereof, etc. Both of my parents had problems. I think I inherited a lot of stuff from them.

At any rate, for someone w/DP/DR/anxiety/panic attacks, etc. I personally do NOT see these drugs as a solution. More often than not there have been posts here that these drugs make the DP/DR worse.

Did it for me. Horrible. Absolutely Horrible.

There have been a few stories however where a low dose of the the "newer antipsychotics" HAVE helped DP/DR. Go figure.

And what do I know? LOL.
I've been through years of trial and error with meds. I'm doing OK, depression hitting me these days but for logical reasons. I'm tired of experimenting, and I've also found (KNOCK WOOD) that TIME, just the passage of time is allowing me to cope with this better. And I could say that CBT, forcing myself to push the bad symptoms (not the chronic ones) out of my mind, is reinforcing itself. I haven't had a bad episode in.... wow.... many months. Still chronic baseline DP/DR, but bad episodes... one VERY brief one... and it made NO sense.... this summer. 30 seconds.

I vote no on these antipsychotics/major tranquilizers for those of us who are NOT bipolar, NOT schizophrenic, but who have "neurotic" or "somatiform" traits vs. "psychotic" traits. BIG difference.

IMHO,
Best,
D 8)

 

[Guest]

Oh, I didn't see the second question in your post. Are anit-psychotics still tried for DP/DR? They were the first things I was given way back when. They didn't do anything other than give me awful side-effects. They didn't affect me mentally at all, not even large doses of (gag!) Haldol. Are they EVER successful in treating DP/DR? I saw Dawn's Highways figure of 60%. Is that for DP/DR, or for psychosis?

That's 60% of people treated for psychotic conditions and schizophrenia. It's the percentage of who RESPONDED to the drug, it's hard to say whether they were actually helped by the drug.

 

[Martinelv]

I myself am not a fan of doctors prescribing anti-psychotics for severe anxiety states. They usually do it out of fear of people becoming addicted to benzo's, which is fair enough. The idea they get in their head is that these anti-psychotics are so tranquilizing, that they will ease your anxiety. Wrong. I don't know why, but the kind of anxiety we experience doens't respond to anti-psychotics. Indeed, it seems, in a lot of cases, to make it worse. The two I've been prescribed, Chlorpromazine and Respiridol, apart from making me feeling physically ill, did nothing at all. In fact, when I did have a panic, they felt worse than ever.