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TRIGGER WARNING STRONG RECOVERED MINDS ONLY

Ever since dp dr I still question so much , I feel sketched about free will as in yes I make my own decisions and thoughts but do I? I believe in God but if God "created me" I technically did not have a say in who I was .. my ideas and what I like.. is it what I like like? Or is my brain just made like that. Because I could've been born liking what you like.. I could've been even been born with psycopathic temdencies and had no say in it . Who am I why why why I could've been an animal what's even the difference and do I even have free will please tell me yes but make it convincing ...
 

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An existence in which we are witnessing bodies/minds discuss whether or not free will exists or not, given the presumption that freewill is not real, is just.... ridiculous.
 

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Since hundreds of years ago ,people only came up "explanations" and "theories" about consciousness and the mind.No one until now was able to prove or disprove anything.Now in our age we have a bunch of reckless ridiculous snake oil sellers who claim to know it all.Just buy a 100 dollars CD from them ,or maybe the Book of "Enlightment" for 300 dollars and you will become "more aware".
Then you will find another snake oil seller on youtube ,who was thrown out of school at the age of 10 because he sold drugs on campus ,claiming that free will is an illusion.So in summery ,something with no free will ,decides to upload a video on youtube to say that free will is an illusion.
Free will is the interaction between the human and the external world.
When I am sitting in a room ,inside the room there is a TV ,a fridge and a bathroom.The person inside the room in that moment interacts with what is there ,he can either choose to turn on the TV ,take a shower ,or make a sandwich.
You as a human ,even if you are hungry ,you can choose not to eat.
Why should free will be an illusion ,what do people want in order to not doubt everything ? Be a god ?
Those deceivers who call themselves spiritual teachers all have an agenda ,that is why they push such ideas.You have no free will ,so come be my slave and buy whatever crap I talk about.
 

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I concur with nocturnalman, it's such a beautiful explanation. I think that should do it. From me, well...I hail from the spiritual capital of the world, per se. And there are quite a number of fake spiritualists and some rare pearls of genuine ones too. Actually life is a combination of free will and destiny. With divine grace your destiny changes and your power of free will strengthens. Remember you are not different from god, you got the same essence and the crux in you. You created yourself and chose these circumstances for whatever reasons which we won't quite understand now; if you do so in this life time well and good. But make the most of your free will by making the right choices and carry on. Pm me for any help. tc man.
 

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And nog I don't get you. You claim that unless we believe in a higher power free will is 100percent not real. It's somewhat contradictory by itself that post. Can you explain clearly?
 

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First of all, we gotta set the parameters and definitions.

FREE WILL DEFINITION:

Do you mean only big important decisions and events in life? Or every single small one as well? Every single blink of your eyes, every tiny little muscles movement, such as one out of every 200+ we have only in our face? Or somewhere in between?

No matter where you set the line, the concept of not having free will becomes silly.

Hopefully this is helping somehow!
 

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Erika ,point 1:

Mind altering substances change our behaviour because we humans have a physical body we use to navigate and survive in the so called "material world".
Drugs change the biochemistry of the body.
If you are driving a car and suddenly you have engine problems ,but you can't leave your car ,you continue to drive the car according to its present capabilities.
The main target of a drug is the brain ,the brain is the organ that deals with incoming data from the outside world ,and in order to give give correct data ,it must be in perfect biochemical balance.
For example a pilot relies on accurate data given by th board computers ,if the board computer fails ,and the weather and sight is bad ,the pilot wont be able to function as if everything was as it is supposed to be.
 

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i can relate to you so much! since the beginning of my DP i have a really hard time with these determinism/free will issues. i recently read this book, it's brand new: https://www.amazon.de/Illusion-Determinism-Free-Causal-English-ebook/dp/B078SYHMHL/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1521377934&sr=8-1&keywords=why+free+will+is+real

there are some really good points made. it didn't eliminate 100% of my worries about determinism but it helped to make it less strong, i can highly recommend it. it helped me very much to realise that there are people out there who strongly believe in free will and that this debate is not solved yet. and probably will never be!

i really hope that, when my sense of agency will come back, i will not care about these questions anymore.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
TBH I really don't understand why Erika decided to put why free will doesn't exist when I'm clearly having anxiety over it and the post was only for arguing it does exist.. this cite is great but people are really hopeless and bring others down with them sometimes.
 

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TRIGGER WARNING STRONG RECOVERED MINDS ONLY

Ever since dp dr I still question so much , I feel sketched about free will as in yes I make my own decisions and thoughts but do I? I believe in God but if God "created me" I technically did not have a say in who I was .. my ideas and what I like.. is it what I like like? Or is my brain just made like that. Because I could've been born liking what you like.. I could've been even been born with psycopathic temdencies and had no say in it . Who am I why why why I could've been an animal what's even the difference and do I even have free will please tell me yes but make it convincing ...
You do have free will, and I can give you a flavor of the arguments from both naturalistic/atheist and theistic perspectives. (I won't go into too much detail, because I suspect it could be triggering.)

In the naturalistic view, the universe seems to be something like a machine and, according to current scientific understanding, everything is ultimately probabilistic: partially determined causally according to physical laws and necessary logical/mathematical principles, but fundamentally random and non-deterministic at the quantum level. According to this view, the intuitive, "naive" notion of absolute free will is incoherent and nonsensical since absolute randomness is free but it isn't directed conscious will, and causality isn't free.

However, this concept of free will can be, and has been, made consistent and coherent, and usefully re-defined such that its reality is obvious. And there are even many such definitions that you are free to choose from!

In essence, and to use a metaphor, I would say that it is delusional to feel you are being determined and defined (inside and out) by nature because you are not just like a ball being tossed about on a wave: you are literally a PART of the wave itself.

You are in fact so free that you can choose to accept or reject free will, and that belief in free will is not separate from who you are, for choosing to believe you have no free will would profoundly transform your sense of self, your thinking, and your behavior.

In the theistic view, there is a God who transcends existence and the limits of human conception. (Any other "god" has no philosophical significance and is undeserving of the name.) For God, all things are possible since God, as creator of existence, precedes everything. His reality is what you might term pre-rational. Free will in the absolute sense, despite our not being able to know how it is possible, is real, and your deepest intuition here is not mistaken. Free will is our greatest gift and without it (or, what amounts to the same thing, if we deny or refuse to exercise it), we would be nothing but God's wind-up toys.

Both extreme freedom and extreme necessity can be terrifying and paralyzing, not just the latter as you found. You can lose yourself if you have too much of one or the other. However, we should remember that we have both and not let our thoughts become unbalanced. Our self is found in the tension and balance between them. (And not just freedom and necessity, but the temporal and eternal, the finite and the infinite, etc.)

Soren Kierkegaard (the 19th century Danish theologian and first existentialist philosopher), wrote a lot on this. His remedy for forms of despair such as you feel is faith, which he defines:

This then is the formula which describes the state of the self when despair is completely eradicated: in relating to itself and in wanting to be itself, the self is grounded transparently in the Power that established it.
This works even if you understand that power as God, the Tao, your highest self, or a logical principle. You don't even have to name that power, but however abstract or formless it is, you must have faith in it. The alternative is despair, whether conscious or unconscious.

EDIT: Kierkegaard can be a very tough read. (For example, "the self relating to itself" is spirit or self-consciousness. Elsewhere, you would come across "the relation's relating to itself" which is the self, where the relation is the tension between opposed ideas such as freedom and necessity, temporal and eternal, etc.) The Hubert Dreyfus lectures on Kierkegaard (on YouTube) are a good introduction.
 
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