[bat]

what do you give a dog to eat to clean their teeth? my dog has lots of plaque on her back teeth- i've heard that bones can chip and hurt her stomache.

to anyone interested:
kipper has settled in. she's the best thing ever and needs loads of attention.
bf (who thinks of himself as a bit cool setting up music festivals and that) is TOTALLY besotted. brings her everywhere he can in the doggie seat belt he got. i give her more restful cuddles.

dog psychologists?
last week bf brought her into a small local town and tied her outside the butchers when he went in. when he came out she had backed herself into a corner, wet herself and wouldn't even lift her head for him.

she also if i've been out for a bit is wiggly and excited when i get in and will wee a little. i don't really mind this, just make sure i let her outside to greet me.

she is a rescue dog and i don't know her history

any advice welcome

 

[dreamcatcher]

doggies wee when excited aswell as when nervous....kipper will settle down and stop doing it...you should be proud of yourself for taking on a rescue dog and you obviously have loads of love to give her.......and i think there as some dog biscuits designed for cleaning teeth

 

[bat]

thanks dream

 

[dakotajo]

Hi Pdr,

My little dog does the same thing. If company comes over the dog gets so excited it pees a little bit everywhere. I give my dog something called a "greenie". Its a little green fake bone(not sure what its made of)that is supposed to be very good for a dogs teeth plus they can eat them and digest them fine. I love dogs.

Joe

 

[Guest]

Yep, the "greenie" DakotaJoe mentioned is excellent. Sorry I don't know the name either, but it's well..GREEN, lol, and often in pet stores they sell them in the front by the cashier - advertised as good for cleaning doggie teeth.

The main thing about these treats is that the dogs will actually EAT them. Some of the others designed to clean teeth aren't too appetizing, so they end up getting buried instead of chewed.

I am thrilled to learn that boyfriend has been seduced by the canine, lol.....ah, yes, the bigger and tougher they are, the harder they fall for dogness.

I think poor Kipper probably felt abandoned when she was left outside. See, she has NO way to know he was coming back. And if she was mistreated in her former life, then being tied up and left all alone is traumatic for her.

Next time, have boyfriend tie her and leave her for TWO seconds, then return. Let her see it's not abandonment, but a temporary request. Have him SAY something to her, special that he says only when he's leaving for a bit like "I will be back, okay?" then ALWAYS use that phrase and she will associate those words with the successful return from before.

I AM SO PROUD OF YOu and Boyfriend! And my hugs to Kipper.
J

 

[ShyTiger]

Greenies ok.Denta bones also ok. There is dry food that is formulated to clean teeth too. Best thing is bones-raw only. A large marrow bone cut in half length ways is great. We used chicken wings and carcasses, lambs necks and brisket with lots of success. However, there is debate at my work between our vets as too whether there is a risk with splintering with the chicken wings and necks. When raw they are soft and flexable. I have been feeding our dogs on this for 3 years now with no probs. Make sure there is no gum irratation or loose teeth as bones then will be painfull too eat and will require vet attention.
How old is your dog now? I am a little concerned with the butcher incident. Where was Kipper tied-as in was there anything that could of frightened her? Cars, people. Sounds like a fear response by your description. How is Kipper when left alone? I would need more detailed info to be able to give specific advice on this. Be very carefull when approaching Kipper when displaying that body language. Talk softly and slow down movements to allow Kipper to feel safe. Don't approach from high up get down to her level, turn side on and invite her to come to you. Could of someone have gone to pat her from above and scared her? It may also be seperation anxiety??As i said would need some more detailed info.
Now to wee. If Kipper young then it takes a while for bladder controll but it usually fixes itself up. Be very calm and keep entrances as low key as possible. I would be interested again on how Kipper is when left alone. If excitement again keep entrances as low key as possible. Even ignoring her for first 30 seconds. Sound harsh but has worked wonders as it allows dog to adjust to you being back and time to settle before te big heellooo.Hope that helps and not too much info.

 

[g-funk]

I WANT ONE!!!!

Kipper sounds so CUTE

 

[bat]

thanks all

i think she's about 4. the rescue lady said 3 and 5 at different times. outside the butchers there would have been cars and some people going past and, as she's so sweet, it's likely that someone would have stopped to stroke her (bf thinks he's missed out on his lady pulling days as females tend to stop to talk to her; and him by default).

when left in the house she seems to be ok but if she's left in the car for a couple of minutes she's very unsettled and yelps alot.

when she jumps up where you're sitting she likes to squash herself in tightly between your body and the edge of the sofa or whatever's there and when sleeping alone she pushes herself tight into the corner. also today we had brought her out to a pretty big market so, because her legs are small, she was exhausted when we got back. i had my legs up and she was more or less asleep on my skirt. i wanted to get something so, not to disturb her, i picked up the edge of my skirt to carry her. she reacted really spooked and in fast jerky movements tried to get under my leg.

i haven't tried bf leaving her for a couple of seconds yet or ignoring her for a bit when we come in as she's been with us all day.

 

[Guest]

when left in the house she seems to be ok but if she's left in the car for a couple of minutes she's very unsettled and yelps alot.

It's an excellent sign that she feels safe and okay when alone in the house. That tells you that she considers it her home. Good going to both you and boyfriend.

Remember, too...she's a dog. lol....and as such, NO dog unless it has slowly been trained from puppyhood is going to comprehend the initial concept of being left alone any place strange, without feeling abandoned and/or HIGHLY concerned.

It's normal for a doggie to yelp if left alone in a car or on a street corner. They have no clue what's happening. It's our human selves and the use of language that allow us to understand the abandonment is highly temporary. Try leaving a toddler someplace without explanation and just walking off....you will definitely hear "yelping"

Think of her as a tiny child who can't speak language yet. She's about 2. If you are confused about any of her behavior, ask if a two-year old would likely have the same kinds of reactions.

Over time, in time...try to teach her to "stay" - the command to wait "over there" while she can still see you. Hold up one hand, palm out facing her and say "STTTAAAYYY.." very slowly. Then slowly back up and keep saying "stay.." As you get to the other side of the room, say "Okay!" and put your hand down and call her. Tell her "good girl!" and give her a treat.

You're slowly teaching her to "wait" for you as a command, rather than having to digest the idea of waiting simply becuase you left. The command makes it a way of pleasing you, so it won't feel like abandonment, but rather a trick. Takes time. Slow and steady and you might try to teach her to "sit" on command first, that's easier and she will get a concept of tricks better with that one.

You and BF are doing a fine fine job with little Kipper. Just don't expect her to automatically understand things she can't possibly grasp just because she innately trusts you.

I love that she smushes herself in between you and the sofa, lol..makes her feel secure!

Congrats again on your new family member, and tell BF that yes, he did indeed miss the boat. A doggie is THE girl magnet of all time. But, he is a father now and should abandon such long-ago fantasies, grin

 

[ShyTiger]

Agree with everything Janine has said and what a wonderfull way of putting it. If Kipper 4 i think wee thing is more to do with excitment and anxiety. Again low key, calm greetings help. The thing with kipper on your skirt sounds like a startle response. It is completly normal as was asleep and obviously taken by surprise when you moved. As Kipper settles in it won't take as much to produce this response. It sounds like Kipper is just still settling in to her new environment. Rescue dogs can sometimes take a little longer to feel 100%secure in new places. She is showing too that she feels safe with you-squishing next to you.(very cute!) If you go to your vet, often they have printed infomation on seperation anxiety and methods you can use to help this. Make sure it is reward based methods. The methods used for this can be adapted to alot of different situations so good reading. Take things slow. People like you give me back faith in the human race that there are those who love their dogs and treat them with that love and care they deserve. Kipper has landed herself the best home with the best guardians ever! Please keep us updated on how she is going.

 

[bat]

thanks again

small update
last night there was low rumbling thunder and lightning most of the night. kipper was in and out of bed, licking, breathing in really short breaths, all night. at first bf didn't hear the thunder and put her out the bedroom door(there's only 10 steps into the living room) but she banged at the door until the latch lifted. bf ended up most of the night with her. i suppose thunder must scare her although she was just acting really affectionately. i tried keeping her under the quilt so she wouldn't hear it and bf ended up bringing her into the other bedroom as it only has one small window and the cottage walls are quite thick. nothing really worked.

i've been trying getting her to stay and giving treats.

bf says she's getting a bit better when left in the car for a few minutes.

i found some 'dental chews' but she doesn't really like them (haven't tried brushing yet). as raw bones are ok i'll get a small one tomorrow.

and g-funk if you have the time getting a dog really is great

 

[Guest]

My dog's biological mom (as opposed to ME, his adoptive mom, lol) has terrible terrors around lightening and thunder. She was NEVER abused, but is well..just a tad neurotic. It's more common than you'd imagine.

Tabitha will literally CLIMB her owner's body, trying to seek the highest point she can find (owner's shoulders/head, lol)....she whimpers and breathes heavy and licks you in the face non-stop till the storm passes. There might not be ANYthing you can do for this, as Tabby has had it all her life. There are of course, doggie benzos, but don't get Joe started, lol

RE: natural bones. Steak bones are great, but NO chicken bones. They splinter easily - cats can digest them, but not dogs. Pieces of bone can puncture doggie intestines. Steak only. And don't be concerned that Kipper is SMALL and meat bones are large - she will impress you by carrying off a bone larger than she is!

And no, those "Dental Chews' (light brown, beige?) don't appeal to any dogs. I have no idea who their test group was, lol

Kipper's Counsel at your service,
Janine

 

[Sunshine Spirit]

The love of my life, Freedom, was put to sleep almost five years ago, yet I still miss her like crazy. I still feel like a murderer and I've still got photo's of her all over the place. I reckon I need some counselling to be able to move on....

Anyway, many years ago, Freedom was enjoying a lamb chop bone, when it suddenly got stuck in her mouth. It was terrible. She went beserk, frantically ripping away at the sides of her lower jaw with her paws. I was trying to calm her down so I could look in her mouth, but she barely let me and I was panicking too. I screamed to my step-sister to call the emergency vet out, which she did immediately.

A crowd quickly gathered (I was outside at the time, painting funny burger people on their hot dog trailer). Freedom allowed me to put my fingers in her mouth. I could feel and see that a large piece of bone was wedged firmly across the roof of her mouth, between her two, upper Wisdom teeth (If dogs have those?). I gripped hold of the bone and pulled at it with as much pressure as I dared, but it was wedged tight. I knew then, that at least one tooth would crack, should I wrench the bone out. I couldn't do that to her.

I was in a terrible state! Crying, screaming for somebody to help and running around like a headless chicken! My step-sister was still on the 'phone. It was so horrible to see Freedom tearing away at her lower jaw like that. I was convinced she was going to break it or that she was going to die. I dashed inside, to find out how long the vet was going to be. My step-sister handed the 'phone to me, telling me they wanted my credit card details before they would come out. I screamed down the 'phone at them that I would give them my credit card details when they arrived, that this was an emergency and they needed to come out right now. The woman calmly told me that there would be a ?40 call out charge. "That's fine!" I screamed, "Just hurry up!"

I ran back out to Freedom. To the greatest relief of my life, one of the neighbours, a young Pakistani boy, had managed to pull the bone out, without damaging any of Freedom's teeth. I couldn't thank him enough. I cried and cuddled poor Freedom for ages. My step-sister cancelled the vet, who still hadn't even left the surgery. Later, I gave the vet a right mouthful! They're supposed to love and help animals, yet all she was concerned about was the money.

Anyway, pdr... er... Yep! The moral to this long story is; Don't give brittle bones to Kipper! Sorry, I always get so carried away.

I was advised by my new vet that brittle bones are only safe to give to cats or dogs who don't scoff their food. As long as they chew slowly, there shouldn't be a problem. Although after reading Janine's advice about the possibility of a bone puncturing the stomach, I would advise everyone never to give brittle bones.

As for cleaning teeth, my advice is to give Kipper hide chews (Have I spelt that properly?). That's the stuff that comes in all shapes and sizes. You name it, they've got it... frisby shapes... kebabs... booties with laces... etc., etc.. Freedom personally preferred the small twisty ones. I think it was because they weren't so much of a challenge, compared to the very expensive one my brother bought her, which was three times the length of her body! Yep, Janine's right about them impressing you by carrying bones and things larger than they are! They're so funny!

For more than 15 years, I gave Freedom sweets, choccies, cakes, etc., and her teeth were spotless. When Freedom was twelve, I asked my new vet how old she thought Freedom was, just by looking at her teeth. She told me about five years old. Of course, her teeth should've all been rotten and falling out, so it must've been thanks all those chews...

By the way, if you see a dog pawing at their mouth, then it's usually a sign that they've got toothache.

 

[ShyTiger]

janine do mean cooked chicken bones or even raw? I find cooked ones are very nasty and do splinter but havn't had a problem with raw. I am going to ask all my vets at work and get back to you. I know one of our vets had mentioned a danger with chicken necks and wings but then it turned into a debate between them all so we never got to the bottom of it. I hope i don't start it all up again! With the thunder thing is very very common! Desensitization works really well with it but you need to get your hands on a cd that has thunderstorms on it. They have ones specifically for desensitization. You start with volume right down and act as if everything fine. Reward dog for calm behaviour. Then gradually turn up. This takes weeks thou as you must do it very very gradually. Usually can get notes on how to do this too from a vet or trainer. Try not to reinforce nervous behaviour. Sunshine i have heard of this with sticks too. Is very scarey and can be dangerous. As for feeling like a murderer stop right now!! It is such a difficult decission to make and as her owner and obviously someone who loved her very much, You made the best decision you could with the best intentions. You made a decision from your heart and that is love not murder.

 

[ShyTiger]

ok, so talked to vets and luckily everything remained calm! Generall feedback was this: Cooked chicken bones deadly!!! Raw chicken bones as with all bones have a risk of obstructing/perferating the bowl however the risk is rare. We see about max two a year for bone injuries to bowels. Chicken bones are more risky than other bones as smaller.The smaller the dog the greater the risk. One vet thought obstuction risk with chicken bones was very low whilst another doesn't recomend chicken necks or wings. Barf or the raw natural diet sais chicken bones good. So lots of conflicting things and is i guess something that is going to remain unresolved. I have not had a prob with raw chicken bones but then i have large and very large dogs. I have never given any of my little dogs raw nat diet. I am not posting this to say anyone is right or wrong just wanted to put info out there and was curious myself on diet thing as i have been studying it since learning that my big girl could not eat dry food-her metabolism does not cope with breaking it down. Vets did say best thing for teeth is marrow bone cut length ways in half as it allows them to really chew at it. Did warn however that if teeth are loose it is not good and that marrow bones should only be fed once a fortnight as very high in fat. Anyway hope that is of interest to people.

 

[g-funk]

Dont read if squeamish-

I have had horrible experiences with my cat, a bit like your Freedom story, where you feel totally helpless to help them. He had a wire in his jaw (to hold it together) and kept trying to pull it out and pulled it out of place and wouldn't let me help him.

My cat got run over and they basically crushed his head, his eye was bulging out, his ear was detached from inside, his jaw was broken and his gums and lips all torn away. I really didn't know what to do. And I think a lot of people thought we did the wrong thing but we persevered and ?3000 later we have a bionic feline. We were lucky though, he has turned out very affectionate, happy and hilariously scatty, albeit with one eye.

 

[Sunshine Spirit]

ShyTiger, thank you for your kind words. My friends and family have all said the same, but it doesn't seem to help. I paid a callout charge for the vet to come to my home and put her to sleep, because she was always nervous in vets waiting rooms. I also gave her sedation (prescribed by the vet) before the vet came, but it clearly didn't work. Freedom knew what was happening and struggled with all her might to escape. My friend was with me and two vets. It was a split second decision I had to make, when my friend pinned her down on my bed. I just kept thinking that it'd be over in a matter of seconds, so I held her still too. The vet stuck a needle in her paw, fiddled about with it for about two minutes, then withdrew it. Then the vet stuck the needle in higher up her leg. It was a nightmare! I was non-stop kissing Freedom's cheek, loudly (as she was quite deaf) telling her, "Bye bye, sweetheart, there's a good girl..." and then she finally went limp.

I'm bawling my eyes out as I write this!!!

My biggest regret is that my friend dug a huge, five-foot-deep hole in my back garden, three days before she was put down. Also, two days before, my father brought down a coffin he'd made for her. Freedom didn't go anywhere near the coffin. Also, when she happily trotted up and looked nosily down the hole, she suddenly put her ears back, her tail between her legs and ran inside. I believe she knew what was going to happen. Even though she had cancer and was having mini strokes, she didn't want to die. She fought us with all her might, yet I betrayed her, by pinning her down, too. Perhaps if the sedative had worked, and Freedom had been put to sleep peacefully, then I wouldn't be feeling like this?

I know she had a great life and that I made my decision from my heart, but I can't understand why I have never sensed her since she died. In the past three years, my brother-in-law was murdered, my best school friend died in a head-on car collision, and two of my friends commited suicide. I suffered terrible grief, yes, but I don't feel guilty, as I know none of their deaths were my fault. Also, shortly after my brother-in-law and best friend died, I strongly sensed them and saw/smelt things. I believe animals exist beyond this life, so I can only assume that Freedom hates me for killing her, which is why I've never sensed her. More than anything, I'd so much love to see her, like many other pet owners have been fortunate enough to experience.

I hope I haven't depressed any of you...

The way I've been dealing with it, is by letting myself think about Freedom for a while - approximately once a month. The wonderfully happy, loving, funny, memories soon turn into the horrible 'end of life' ones. I'll allow myself to bawl my eyes out for half an hour and then make myself block it out of my mind again. It helps that I've got a memorial in my garden, exactly where she used to love to lay in the sun. Also, I'm going to make a huge rose garden where she's buried. There are already five rose bushes on her grave. Every year, I get at least sixty roses on each bush. The smell is absolutely beautiful.

Anyway, getting back to this thread... sorry, everyone!... ShyTiger, I'm glad you mentioned about the sticks. You're so right! Pdr and anyone else who has a dog - don't ever use sticks to play with.

Two years ago, my father was over the fields and threw a stick for his dog, Rosie. As she pounced on it, it went up through her mouth and punctured the back of her throat. My dad said it was awful and he wanted to cry as Rosie whimpered in pain. It was still stuck in her throat, protruding from her mouth by a foot, so he had to pull it out. He took her straight to the vets, where she had an injection and stitches. She stayed in overnight, and it was a few days before she could eat anything. Thankfully, she's fine now. The vet told my dad that accidents with sticks happens a lot. Freedom used to love chasing sticks. I used them for more than fifteen years. Now I realise how lucky we were not to have had an accident with them.

Desenzitisation sound slike a brilliant way to help animals who are afraid of thunderstorms. I suppose it could work with fireworks too? My heart always goes out to pets and all wild animals on Guy Falkes night. Poor little darlings.

g-funk, that must have been hell for you to have to go through. I'm so glad he's okay now. What's his name? By the way, that sounds like a typical vets' bill! :wink: It's amazing that when it comes to our beloved pets, money is no object, isn't it? Well... it doesn't seem to matter at the time when they're in pain, anyway... you just swoon afterwards!

 

[g-funk]

That story is so sad. You've been through so much recently. Wherever Freedom is, I am sure she understands that you did the best thing for her. I really do. Grieving for an animal can be as painful as for any human being, and sometimes worse, since our pets are often our closest and most dearest friends.

Now I'm going to start bawling!

 

[g-funk]

ps I was born in Cardiff!

St Davids hospital, which is gone now.

 

[Sunshine Spirit]

Wow, g-funk! I was born in Cardiff, St. David's hospital, too. It's such a small world, isn't it? The clock tower's still there. Apparently Charlotte Church lives there now. My brother lives in the apartments next to the hospital and I live just up the road. Did you know that a new St. David's hospital was built in the grounds?

Thanks for your kind words. 'It's better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all' is so true. It's worth the terrible heartache, for all the happiness a furry friend can bring you.