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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Can spiritual thoughts like you are not your thoughts, you are not your ego create dp/dr? Like these are just thoughts, you are not thinking those, the ego thinks those all, everything is an illusion. Those fucking thoughts got stuck with me and I think they keep me in dp/dr. What should I do? Label them as dp dr created everytime they show up?
 

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It's a logical fallacy. Your ego is just another part of your mental anatomy. You hear in spiritual circles to get rid of ego, have ego death etc etc. Why? "Because it's not you". But look at this metaphor... you are not your hand, if you chop it off you will still be you... so chop off your hands??? No! Your hand is an extension of YOU. So too, is the ego. Learn to use your hand as a tool, same deal with ego.
 

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The thoughts cant but the awareness that they might lead you to. Thats how i got dp(had dr already before for many years).

I still got that awareness and it will never leave me, ive seen to much of the noself. However im more and more able to integrate that insight into my self, taming it so i dont fall into the pit of the void.
 

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I don't know if these kind of thoughts can actually cause DP without any prior disturbance, but if you are already troubled I think they can feed the condition, fitting in nicely with generally scary and catastrophic thinking. It's unfortunate that these ideas are so often expressed in the negative, as with emptiness and no self, because if you are mentally disturbed you are likely to interpret words like these in a dark and bleak way, but they can also be described in the affirmative, which maybe more accurate to what is intended. Emptiness could mean untroubled and tranquil, and no self as feeling in harmony with your environment and people around you. When you put it in friendlier terms it's not scary anymore. That's the trouble with language, and how mental state can drastically effect interpretation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I don't know if these kind of thoughts can actually cause DP without any prior disturbance, but if you are already troubled I think they can feed the condition, fitting in nicely with generally scary and catastrophic thinking. It's unfortunate that these ideas are so often expressed in the negative, as with emptiness and no self, because if you are mentally disturbed you are likely to interpret words like these in a dark and bleak way, but they can also be described in the affirmative, which maybe more accurate to what is intended. Emptiness could mean untroubled and tranquil, and no self as feeling in harmony with your environment and people around you. When you put it in friendlier terms it's not scary anymore. That's the trouble with language, and how mental state can drastically effect interpretation.
Thank you for your answer, yes I had prior disturbances and these thoughts looks like feeding my dp,dr. Should I drop them even tho I know they are somehow relevant and true? I mean I start to think to myself about something, then a thought pop ups and says, these are just thoughts you're fooling yourself etc. Is this dp dr thought? Or like I'm creating a new structure in my mind, positive thoughts, doing some CBT etc. Then a thought comes and say, "well there is no-self, and you're just building your ego and wasting time, why not just be aware of them and let them go" and that creates dissonance because I have trauma and I want to build a sense of self, which I should be doing in my opinion, those no-self things looks really scary to me? I don't know. Any advice?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
It's a logical fallacy. Your ego is just another part of your mental anatomy. You hear in spiritual circles to get rid of ego, have ego death etc etc. Why? "Because it's not you". But look at this metaphor... you are not your hand, if you chop it off you will still be you... so chop off your hands??? No! Your hand is an extension of YOU. So too, is the ego. Learn to use your hand as a tool, same deal with ego.
Damn man you're better than a lot of gurus haha. Damn I feel so stupid to believe what I heard about the meditation community and I just feel like I made myself depersonalized for nothing. I'm definetely off the reality for 1 year, just coming back out. So they purpose reduce the, or tame the ego and act, observe on awareness. What do you say about that? Isn't that just another form of dp dr? Also I guess my biggest mistake was this, I tried to use the philosophy without enough practice, so I just acted out on the philosophy when I had no enough concentration and mindfulness. What do you think any advice?
 

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I think ego-death refers to the small grasping part of us and doesn't mean we feel no connection, but means feeling more connected without the distraction of always thinking about things you want to have and possess. It means contentment. Again, the choice of words and the way it's put is problematic for anyone who is feeling disturbed.

Thank you for your answer, yes I had prior disturbances and these thoughts looks like feeding my dp,dr. Should I drop them even tho I know they are somehow relevant and true? I mean I start to think to myself about something, then a thought pop ups and says, these are just thoughts you're fooling yourself etc. Is this dp dr thought? Or like I'm creating a new structure in my mind, positive thoughts, doing some CBT etc. Then a thought comes and say, "well there is no-self, and you're just building your ego and wasting time, why not just be aware of them and let them go" and that creates dissonance because I have trauma and I want to build a sense of self, which I should be doing in my opinion, those no-self things looks really scary to me? I don't know. Any advice?
Yes, I think it is best to place all these thoughts in the DP category and focus on building your sense of self in the ways you described. These thoughts seem profound, but only in the same way that trauma is profound. They are just upsetting and not helpful, and because we are looking at these ideas through the veil of trauma we are bound to misinterpret them anyway.
 

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Damn man you're better than a lot of gurus haha. Damn I feel so stupid to believe what I heard about the meditation community and I just feel like I made myself depersonalized for nothing. I'm definetely off the reality for 1 year, just coming back out. So they purpose reduce the, or tame the ego and act, observe on awareness. What do you say about that? Isn't that just another form of dp dr? Also I guess my biggest mistake was this, I tried to use the philosophy without enough practice, so I just acted out on the philosophy when I had no enough concentration and mindfulness. What do you think any advice?
In many traditions you'll find the Hero or Godman or Angel conquering the Serpent or Dragon.

archangel-michael-by-daniel-mirante.jpg?


The Dragon represents an untamed ego or your carnal nature. It's important to "get on top" of your lower instincts that would have you acting on every impulse, such as overeating, binge drinking, doing hard drugs, etc etc. Doesn't have to be that extreme but the ideal is the same.

Also there is a good Native American word on this.

2wolves.jpg


The Evil Wolf is not necessarily labeled as "Ego"... and the Good Wolf is not necessarily "Not Ego".

More like the Evil Wolf is "Untamed Ego" and the Good Wolf is when one is using Ego as a tool or servant of the Higher Self.

Ego itself, etymologically, is the Latin word for "I". So for what is that worth? Take care of yourself... you would be blind if you take out your "Eye".
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
In many traditions you'll find the Hero or Godman or Angel conquering the Serpent or Dragon.

archangel-michael-by-daniel-mirante.jpg?


The Dragon represents an untamed ego or your carnal nature. It's important to "get on top" of your lower instincts that would have you acting on every impulse, such as overeating, binge drinking, doing hard drugs, etc etc. Doesn't have to be that extreme but the ideal is the same.

Also there is a good Native American word on this.

2wolves.jpg


The Evil Wolf is not necessarily labeled as "Ego"... and the Good Wolf is not necessarily "Not Ego".

More like the Evil Wolf is "Untamed Ego" and the Good Wolf is when one is using Ego as a tool or servant of the Higher Self.

Ego itself, etymologically, is the Latin word for "I". So for what is that worth? Take care of yourself... you would be blind if you take out your "Eye".
Do you mean take care of your mind and your life and get the control and tame it and asking questions? Not necessarily just practicing meditation right? You just mean taking control from your lower self and ruling it in the way you want to live?
 

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In many traditions you'll find the Hero or Godman or Angel conquering the Serpent or Dragon.

archangel-michael-by-daniel-mirante.jpg?


The Dragon represents an untamed ego or your carnal nature. It's important to "get on top" of your lower instincts that would have you acting on every impulse, such as overeating, binge drinking, doing hard drugs, etc etc. Doesn't have to be that extreme but the ideal is the same.

Also there is a good Native American word on this.

2wolves.jpg


The Evil Wolf is not necessarily labeled as "Ego"... and the Good Wolf is not necessarily "Not Ego".

More like the Evil Wolf is "Untamed Ego" and the Good Wolf is when one is using Ego as a tool or servant of the Higher Self.

Ego itself, etymologically, is the Latin word for "I". So for what is that worth? Take care of yourself... you would be blind if you take out your "Eye".
I'm sorry for quoting you a lot, but I have severe childhood trauma and my conditioned body seems to response everything with stress, and I noticed that I was in a dissociation mode most of my life, including the line of dp dr too in times. I know I can break this chain because mine is caused by stress and stress alone. I recognized that when I belly breath, I am mostly able to calm myself and take control, however, as I heard the fight or flight is a unconscious mechanism, that means I need to go deeper to heal in my opinion, like I'm constantly conditioning my mind for positive outcomes and situations, and it really does work, however that is taxing, and takes energy, I thought that maybe I could re-condition this my CPTSD body with the traning of deep relaxations like meditation etc. What do you think? My one difference from yours is that mine is definetely caused by stress because I experience feeling real and that exit from dp dr time to time, so I must be lucky one here. You got any opinion for this situation? I mean I work with my mind a lot, I constantly visualize and put the thought patterns, like I rebuild the mind, yet do you think that would be not enough if there is a trauma lying inside and needs more practices? I'm doing balanced with deep breathing from belly and mind control positive thought replacement etc. But still, life is full of stress ey, any unbalanced stress is able to cause me to the edge because I'm keen to it and my body is dissociating when there is too much. DO you think I need to do every tool I can muster?
 

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Do you mean take care of your mind and your life and get the control and tame it and asking questions? Not necessarily just practicing meditation right? You just mean taking control from your lower self and ruling it in the way you want to live?
Well it's different for every person and even further it always goes deeper as you pass through different levels of insight.
 

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I'm sorry for quoting you a lot, but I have severe childhood trauma and my conditioned body seems to response everything with stress, and I noticed that I was in a dissociation mode most of my life, including the line of dp dr too in times. I know I can break this chain because mine is caused by stress and stress alone. I recognized that when I belly breath, I am mostly able to calm myself and take control, however, as I heard the fight or flight is a unconscious mechanism, that means I need to go deeper to heal in my opinion, like I'm constantly conditioning my mind for positive outcomes and situations, and it really does work, however that is taxing, and takes energy, I thought that maybe I could re-condition this my CPTSD body with the traning of deep relaxations like meditation etc. What do you think? My one difference from yours is that mine is definetely caused by stress because I experience feeling real and that exit from dp dr time to time, so I must be lucky one here. You got any opinion for this situation? I mean I work with my mind a lot, I constantly visualize and put the thought patterns, like I rebuild the mind, yet do you think that would be not enough if there is a trauma lying inside and needs more practices? I'm doing balanced with deep breathing from belly and mind control positive thought replacement etc. But still, life is full of stress ey, any unbalanced stress is able to cause me to the edge because I'm keen to it and my body is dissociating when there is too much. DO you think I need to do every tool I can muster?
It sounds to me like you are doing just fine with what you are doing. With what little I know of trauma and stress reaction... you are doing exactly what I've learned recently, that is as you said thought replacement. Which is what some call "Cognitive Reframing" which is "a psychological technique that consists of identifying and then disputing irrational or maladaptive thoughts. Reframing is a way of viewing and experiencing events, ideas, concepts and emotions to find more positive alternatives."

And yes of course meditation done right does alleviate stress and trains your brain/mind/self to approach life events with a calm attitude and centered self.
 

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It sounds to me like you are doing just fine with what you are doing. With what little I know of trauma and stress reaction... you are doing exactly what I've learned recently, that is as you said thought replacement. Which is what some call "Cognitive Reframing" which is "a psychological technique that consists of identifying and then disputing irrational or maladaptive thoughts. Reframing is a way of viewing and experiencing events, ideas, concepts and emotions to find more positive alternatives."

And yes of course meditation done right does alleviate stress and trains your brain/mind/self to approach life events with a calm attitude and centered self.
I wanna thank you a lot, I did meditative practice for 1.5 year, and I really worked on my Ego and negative beliefts and my old negative conditionings in that 1.5 year, and really worked my ass off to be conscious of all my negative patterns, and it was like, Ego was under my control, or more or less lose its strength to my hands, and life seemed at ease to me that I thought it was my Ego going home and me feeling less sense of self, actually it was me having depression, and when I really had a chance to heal my depression, I just left the building. Then I stopped these all being conscious, thought regulating and meditative calmness practices at the start of the summer, now fastforward here, I notice I ruminated, obsessed, created intrusive thoughts and lost my all higher state of mind. I lost my goals, my future seeing, and lost myself into a weaker place. Thank you for reminding me what was giving my new strength, the power and manage over the Ego. I have a very fragile and angry Ego, I Have CPTSD; but after those workings of mine, I really take control of myself, but after letting of those control mechanism at summer, my hurt inner child started to embody me again and I lost my calmness and hence with increased stress there comes irrational fears and there comes the infamous DP/DR. Now I know what to do, heal the inner child and don't forget it, while becoming aware of the old conditionings, habits, impulses and reactions. Becoming the Angel, Brightmorningstar, and slaying the fricking dragon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Well it's different for every person and even further it always goes deeper as you pass through different levels of insight.
Also I think not accepting my new self and resisting to the change I've done caused me to achieve stress and ruminate on it hence created dissociation problems, I was not be able to accept that I relinqueshed some parts of old me , which was a really good thing, but I had that irrational fear.
 
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