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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Now I'm gonna' try and get this into words, but I may struggle (I've only written one essay in the past two years). But please read, as it may help you to better understand how your mind is working, and perhaps be a step towards recovery.
Oh, and just because my avatar isn't a butterfly, doesn't mean that I don't have some wisdom on the whole dp/anxiety thing.
Ok, firstly I believe that anxiety is the same as what normal people refer to as worry. Anxiety is basically worry gone way out of control.
Now the sort of things we are worried about are indeed quite different to what normal people would worry about. Fear of losing one's mind or suddenly dying for example.
Now to draw a parallel between our fears and the everday fears of normal people, I bring forth the rather mundane issue of home security.
A man is at his desk on a normal day at the office. Suddenly he wonders whether he shut that upstairs window that was left open last night. After a good few minutes of intense memory recall he concludes that he did indeed shut the window. Then he wonders whether he closed the second lock on the door. After a few more minutes of memory recall he concludes tha he did. Does he stop there? No, because he is a neurotic (like us). This is where things start to go wrong
Is that glazing on the font door actually strong enough anyway?
The snowball begins to roll.
A burglar could quite easily smash through it, and without an alarm system, break in unnoticed. After a few minutes of thought, he resolves to buy an alarm and have double glazing fitted to his front door.
The next day at work, the temptation to further scrutinize his security arrises. The alarm isn't enough, how can he rely on the benevolence of his neighbours, and surely a deteremined burglar would come equipped with some sort of glass cutter. His fear is already becoming irrational, the snowball has gained considerable mass and momentum.
He makes the mistake at this point of resolving to have yet more security fitted. He has a large steel door put up in front of his porch.
Yet the worry persists. A burglar could quite easily climb up to one of the upstairs windows, and use that special glass cutter (which may or may not exist anyway).
In his panic he decides to have his entire house encarcerated in a steel fortress.
Is this enough? Of course not. A thief could dig under ground, or bypass the security locks with some hi-tech gizmo, which may or may not exist.
At this pont we can see that the man's fear is totally irrational, even us irrational dp'ers can see that.
Yet the pattern of escalating anxiety is somthing that is all too familiar to us.
It is perhaps because our fears were so foreign and different to all our previous worries, that we had such difficulty dealing with them in the first place. When a sudden fear of going insane strikes us, we make like the home security guy and try to upgrade out mental security. That is perhaps where the problem lies. Because in apparently dealing with our fear, we have in fact upped our potential for bizarre and terrifying fear. Just as the fear and hopelesness the home security guy experienced after he'd tried everything, was far greater than the mild worry he experienced when wondering whether he'd shut tha window, the fear we experience after many months (or years) of trying to reassure ourselves is far more hopless than that experienced initially.
This comes from my own personal experience, so it may not apply to others. See my obsessing started a few months before my dp kicked in. It started with a fear of scizophrenia. After reading into the subject very much, I actually came up with a statistic, there was something like a 0.1% chance of me develpoing the iillness. Did my worry stop there? Of course not, because then I obsessed over that statistic, what if I was that one in a thousand?
Over the years my obsessing has elevated to a profound existential level. After all the ruminations that I thought I had defeated, but had just in fact provided a boost to the next level of horror, I have plataued at the ultimate fear, nothing.
LOL this fear doesn't even makes sense. So all the info, and all my common sense indicates I'm not going mad, and I'm not dying, and my body is in fact my own, and my mum is still the same person she was yesterday....but what if there is in fact nothing, no world, no me, not even my own thoughts and feelings.
But I realise now, I have the wisdom to understand that this is in fact the same beast I was fighting back when I thought I might be develping scizophrenia. Like the home security guy, I had kept bumping the obsessing up a level, making it more irrational, till it eventually had to defy every shred of common sense that a human being could posses in order to scare me. The anxiety always had to go somewhere once I had chased it out of whatever obsession it was hiding in, like a hermit crab always moves to a better shell.
So what I need to do is just drop it all. Strip away all that home security and even leave a few windows open in the process.
When I have felt close to normality, that's what it's been like. I was simply living, acting normally and, crucially, thinking normally. There was no need for all that security, all that rationalising why I was sane, why my hand was in fact my hand. It just came naturally.

Live, and reality will find it's way back to you, not the other way round.

I hope that made sense, and sorry if the home security thing got on your nerves. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Now I'm gonna' try and get this into words, but I may struggle (I've only written one essay in the past two years). But please read, as it may help you to better understand how your mind is working, and perhaps be a step towards recovery.
Oh, and just because my avatar isn't a butterfly, doesn't mean that I don't have some wisdom on the whole dp/anxiety thing.
Ok, firstly I believe that anxiety is the same as what normal people refer to as worry. Anxiety is basically worry gone way out of control.
Now the sort of things we are worried about are indeed quite different to what normal people would worry about. Fear of losing one's mind or suddenly dying for example.
Now to draw a parallel between our fears and the everday fears of normal people, I bring forth the rather mundane issue of home security.
A man is at his desk on a normal day at the office. Suddenly he wonders whether he shut that upstairs window that was left open last night. After a good few minutes of intense memory recall he concludes that he did indeed shut the window. Then he wonders whether he closed the second lock on the door. After a few more minutes of memory recall he concludes tha he did. Does he stop there? No, because he is a neurotic (like us). This is where things start to go wrong
Is that glazing on the font door actually strong enough anyway?
The snowball begins to roll.
A burglar could quite easily smash through it, and without an alarm system, break in unnoticed. After a few minutes of thought, he resolves to buy an alarm and have double glazing fitted to his front door.
The next day at work, the temptation to further scrutinize his security arrises. The alarm isn't enough, how can he rely on the benevolence of his neighbours, and surely a deteremined burglar would come equipped with some sort of glass cutter. His fear is already becoming irrational, the snowball has gained considerable mass and momentum.
He makes the mistake at this point of resolving to have yet more security fitted. He has a large steel door put up in front of his porch.
Yet the worry persists. A burglar could quite easily climb up to one of the upstairs windows, and use that special glass cutter (which may or may not exist anyway).
In his panic he decides to have his entire house encarcerated in a steel fortress.
Is this enough? Of course not. A thief could dig under ground, or bypass the security locks with some hi-tech gizmo, which may or may not exist.
At this pont we can see that the man's fear is totally irrational, even us irrational dp'ers can see that.
Yet the pattern of escalating anxiety is somthing that is all too familiar to us.
It is perhaps because our fears were so foreign and different to all our previous worries, that we had such difficulty dealing with them in the first place. When a sudden fear of going insane strikes us, we make like the home security guy and try to upgrade out mental security. That is perhaps where the problem lies. Because in apparently dealing with our fear, we have in fact upped our potential for bizarre and terrifying fear. Just as the fear and hopelesness the home security guy experienced after he'd tried everything, was far greater than the mild worry he experienced when wondering whether he'd shut tha window, the fear we experience after many months (or years) of trying to reassure ourselves is far more hopless than that experienced initially.
This comes from my own personal experience, so it may not apply to others. See my obsessing started a few months before my dp kicked in. It started with a fear of scizophrenia. After reading into the subject very much, I actually came up with a statistic, there was something like a 0.1% chance of me develpoing the iillness. Did my worry stop there? Of course not, because then I obsessed over that statistic, what if I was that one in a thousand?
Over the years my obsessing has elevated to a profound existential level. After all the ruminations that I thought I had defeated, but had just in fact provided a boost to the next level of horror, I have plataued at the ultimate fear, nothing.
LOL this fear doesn't even makes sense. So all the info, and all my common sense indicates I'm not going mad, and I'm not dying, and my body is in fact my own, and my mum is still the same person she was yesterday....but what if there is in fact nothing, no world, no me, not even my own thoughts and feelings.
But I realise now, I have the wisdom to understand that this is in fact the same beast I was fighting back when I thought I might be develping scizophrenia. Like the home security guy, I had kept bumping the obsessing up a level, making it more irrational, till it eventually had to defy every shred of common sense that a human being could posses in order to scare me. The anxiety always had to go somewhere once I had chased it out of whatever obsession it was hiding in, like a hermit crab always moves to a better shell.
So what I need to do is just drop it all. Strip away all that home security and even leave a few windows open in the process.
When I have felt close to normality, that's what it's been like. I was simply living, acting normally and, crucially, thinking normally. There was no need for all that security, all that rationalising why I was sane, why my hand was in fact my hand. It just came naturally.

Live, and reality will find it's way back to you, not the other way round.

I hope that made sense, and sorry if the home security thing got on your nerves. :)
 

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reality finds its way back to you- i've found that. all the panic about what i have to be forcing myself to do, scared that if i cant act like that or think like that i'll never escape the torment. all that panic i feel has nothing to do with coming out of dp. i dont think its anything to do with me being a particularly strong person. dp just lifts gradually of its own accord, or with some help from meds. thats what i've found.

i see where you're coming from about anxiety and would mostly agree. the only thing i cant get my head around is that i've had a few odd mental anxiety/panic attacks which i cant explain. theyre out of the blue, not connected to any thoughts and unbearable for more than a few seconds. my initial dp actually strted with one of these. i've only ever had a couple more. maybe they're not panic/anxiety attacks? i've just labelled them that.
 

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reality finds its way back to you- i've found that. all the panic about what i have to be forcing myself to do, scared that if i cant act like that or think like that i'll never escape the torment. all that panic i feel has nothing to do with coming out of dp. i dont think its anything to do with me being a particularly strong person. dp just lifts gradually of its own accord, or with some help from meds. thats what i've found.

i see where you're coming from about anxiety and would mostly agree. the only thing i cant get my head around is that i've had a few odd mental anxiety/panic attacks which i cant explain. theyre out of the blue, not connected to any thoughts and unbearable for more than a few seconds. my initial dp actually strted with one of these. i've only ever had a couple more. maybe they're not panic/anxiety attacks? i've just labelled them that.
 
G

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I love what you wrote. It makes so much sense. It was profound for me to read it because, it is so different from the posts you were writing a year ago. You have come full circle, it's as if you stepped away from the madness and got a clear picture of what was really going on and how you lost yourself in fear and terror. I am so happy for you. I hope you are feeling better because you certianly sound as if you are!!

Sassy 8)
 
G

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I love what you wrote. It makes so much sense. It was profound for me to read it because, it is so different from the posts you were writing a year ago. You have come full circle, it's as if you stepped away from the madness and got a clear picture of what was really going on and how you lost yourself in fear and terror. I am so happy for you. I hope you are feeling better because you certianly sound as if you are!!

Sassy 8)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the replies guys.
I guess that this analogy refers more to obsessing rather than the experience of fear. Evenif one has no obsessions and maintains normal thinking, one can still experince dp and panic attacks.
This post was meant mainly for those who feel they have become totally lost in their own bizarre and terrifying thoughts. I hope that in giving a more down to earth analogy for comparison, one may be able to see there state of mind in a more understandable and comforting light.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for the replies guys.
I guess that this analogy refers more to obsessing rather than the experience of fear. Evenif one has no obsessions and maintains normal thinking, one can still experince dp and panic attacks.
This post was meant mainly for those who feel they have become totally lost in their own bizarre and terrifying thoughts. I hope that in giving a more down to earth analogy for comparison, one may be able to see there state of mind in a more understandable and comforting light.
 

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thank you for that post Axel,
Its a reminder of how this started in the first place, and where we are coming from

It can be easy to forget the facts when you get caught up in this nightmare

Isobel
xx
 

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thank you for that post Axel,
Its a reminder of how this started in the first place, and where we are coming from

It can be easy to forget the facts when you get caught up in this nightmare

Isobel
xx
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Can't be bothered to do my essay right now, so I thought I'd have a read through some of my old posts, and found this one. I actually think it's quite good. It was written a few weeks after I, seemingly, recovered from my 'second' weed smoking/three hour panic attack thingy, and just a few days before I went off to uni', and everything went to sh*t again.
I'm feeling very positive at the moment, and see a great deal of truth in what I wrote at the time. I'd love to be in that position again, and believe that I can.
Hope you enjoyed reading it.
 
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i liked your post, it was clear and realistic unlike some other posts that i read that get me go into deep thoughts
 

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Axel. That was a good illustration of pure obsessiveness. Worry is indeed as good a word as anxiety in this situation, becasue the physical parts of anxiety are not always felt when worrying obsessively. We just trick the thoughts by answering the doubts and then on to another doubt. We are compulsed to think in this manner, our thoughts are our compulsions.

I like how a few authors describe this as "the doubting disease". I also like how it is defined as the "need to search but never to find". The reason we doubt so much is so we can keep searching, the searching being what keeps this thing rolling. We feel the need to find certaintly, but we never do...only ohter doubts. Strange dynamic, but it supposedly keeps anxiety at bay.

One obvious was out of it is to accept the fact that all of life is uncertain and has many fears. All we are doing is addressing fear to fear, fear based on fear and fear fueled by fear when we play the doubting game. I know, I have done it over various periods in my life my whole life. But you are right, the realization that comes from reality is mighty and ultimately therapuetic, but the devil is a trickster I guess and can get back in to play. We jsut cannot let it happen.

Many feel this urge to doubt is purely biological and has to be treated by meds. Others say a good dose of reality, to fire the security company, is as good. It is interesting how all of these things go so well together...anxiety..worry...ocd...depression...dp/dr and often are all targeted by one med. I say a good dose of reality can stare them all in the face very well. That reality being that life is uncertain, that all humans have doubts, insecurities and worrys, that we cannot control everything, that we cannot make everything good..... but that most of life is indeed good...if we can see it and accept it when we choose
jft
 
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