[Guest]

Hey i don't know if this board is the right place for my post but i figure ill give it a shot. I have very bad anxiety about going just about anywhere, and in talking to people I dont know well yet. Well i have tried everything for it, and have found things to help it sometimes, but usually just deal with it since benzos make things worse when u quit takin them. It seems my mind rejects benzos now, all it does is make me tired and give me nightmares. Ive also tried ssri's, and antipsychotics but it makes things way way worse. I am one of the people that doesnt respond well to medicine. Im not sure if i have DP or DS but it seems like it. I know the symptons and have been dealing with them for years and years, but lately things have got worse. I had some been in a lot of very scary situations on LSD about a year ago, and i still have flashbacks almost everyday. Some of the worst things that have happened to me have happened to me while on LSD, and it caused things to be worse than they had to be. I dont do lsd anymore, just drink socially.
But since about a year ago, since I had a very tough nervous breakdown on lsd, and i quit doing it all together, I have been noticing a pattern of superstitios and strange events happening around me. Its like im the victim of circumstance almost every day. I thought today I might have died about 2 months ago and no one told me and I am being punished by being sent to hell, and hell for me was living my life of fear, and rejection, just now with bad circumstances all the time. I know that is not real, but I just dont know what to think sometimes. I am taking things one day at a time.
Now another bad thing I am noticing is people are treating me like i am a psychopath everywhere I go. I feel like people dont trust me, I get treated like i am a serial killer everywhere i go. For instance, a cop thought i had a gun because the way my cell phone looked in my pocket and i almost got shot for no reason. I guess I look guilty of something whereever i go, but i cant figure out why people are thinking this. I call it indifference for lack of a better word. Even doctors are treating me rudely, and talk to me like i am a child when i got into a car accident. Everywhyere I go I am getting treated like i don't belong. Its like i am a disgrace to society. Even foreigners are getting more respect than i do. I just don't know what to do anymore. It seems things are going into a downward spiral and i know at the bottom of it is death. I feel like i am being punished for the sins of the world that i didnt do. When i ask most people about this, they tell me because i dont smile enough or something, but I can fake a smile for a long time, but as soon as I get thrown off by something someone says, the smile goes away as I feel i am being threatened somehow. Any thoughts?? Is this DP/DS? Thanks in advance, Matt

 

[Ben]

Hello Matt,

I really should be going to bed, but I kind of thought I should respond to this while I saw it or it might get lost in the noise of the group.

It sounds to me like you have a lot of confused thoughts about your world and environment right now, and quite possibly some element of paranoia concerning the thoughts of others and their take on you - which is something we've all experienced from time to time.

There have been moments when I thought to myself, "Wouldn't it be bizarre if I had accidentally died at some point in the past, and I'm now living the after life?" To me that was a very interesting thought - and it had never really made me scared like some of my other thoughts had in the past, but this seems to be a thought you and I share, so, I can equate with you on that level.

I'm not sure of others on the board, though, I can account for myself that I have a fairly low level of paranoia concerning the thoughts or ruminations of others about me. Perhaps let me ask you to clarify a couple of things in order here as I can tell your nerves have you writing kind of fast:

1) What do you mean by superstitions? Being the victim of superstition in what way? What strange events?

2) Psychopath and serial killer are pretty harsh things to be treated like! Most people have very little awareness of the ways they treat people and how they come across to those they touch. However, I would think that if a policeman nearly shot you for the appearence of your cell phone, you may need to bring that to the attention of the police as he may have been overly aggressive. What happened with that situation?

First off, you're not a disgrace to society. If you single-you was a disgrace to all of society, then society has a lot of soul-searching as you seem like a fairly decent person to me. It's possibly you may be interpreting the actions of others incorrectly, or if not then you may be simply hanging around the wrong people.

It sounds to me like you may have a bipolar-like condition brought upon by the LSD; or the effects of that LSD jolted the BPD into a worse situation for you. I would highly recommend slowing down a bit and perhaps talking to a psychologist; to kind of let loose some of these feelings you have - and I bet they can help. I took drugs too a few years back - which included LSD - and it definitely weirded me out in some fairly paranoid ways while I was on it. This may be a condition you need to get checked out.

The absolute important thing to remember here is that even though you may feel these people are kind of looking down on you, or that they may be punishing you; they most likely aren't - and most likely aren't even thinking about your existence as much as you (that's just human nature). That being said, find a good doctor/counselor/etc to sit down with and kind of express these feelings - they would be much better at long term diagnosis than any of us.

From what you have described it may not be depersonalization alone, or if it is it's depersonalization tempered with other conditions (like BPD - maybe, anxiety, etc.) However, please feel free to continue posting so long as it makes you feel better. I am by no means any kind of expert, so I could be completely off base on any kind of "diagnosis" my feeble skills could muster.

 

[Da'Burgh]

There is a possibility that your bad trip could cause these things. This is called Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. I really believe this is a link to what I have since I had a severe panic attack while using a psychodelic which I thought I was losing my mind and would die. I know how it feels, it's scary as ever.

I took this from something rainboteers posted which was helpful.

The symptoms of PTSD include:

sleep problems including nightmares and waking early--I have this I have nightmares of dr.'s and I have dreams that dr.'s are telling me I am crazy.

flashbacks and replays which you are unable to switch off--sometimes I feel better but as soon as I think about how terrifying the symptoms are I am back to square one.

impaired memory, forgetfulness, inability to recall names, facts and dates that are well known to you--I think we can all relate to this in some way or another as it is a large part of dp

impaired concentration--I experience this

impaired learning ability (eg through poor memory and inability to concentrate) -- This too

hypervigilance (feels like but is not paranoia) --- Think lots here can relate

exaggerated startle response -- Also think lots of you can relate

irritability, sudden intense anger, occasional violent outbursts

panic attacks -- I know some of you have these and I have had a couple

hypersensitivity, whereby every remark is perceived as critical

obsessiveness - the experience takes over your life, you can't get it out of your mind -- WOW no comment neccessary

joint and muscle pains which have no obvious cause -- sometimes I feel like I have the flu

feelings of nervousness, anxiety-- Again no comment needed

reactive depression (not endogenous depression) -- hmmm... not sure what endogenous depression is, BUT it makes perfect sense that we are in reactive depression due to feeling so bad. How could you not get depressd.

excessive levels of shame, embarrassment

survivor guilt for having survived when others perished

a feeling of having been given a second chance at life

undue fear -- OH YEAH

low self-esteem and shattered self-confidence-- I have that

emotional numbness, anhedonia (inability to feel love or joy) -- sometimes

feelings of detachment -- THATS THE BIGGIE ISN'T IT

avoidance of anything that reminds you of the experience

physical and mental paralysis at any reminder of the experience-- I have this as well

The symptoms significantly interfere with normal social or vocational functioning-- That is alot of us I would think

PTSD disorder is caused by exposure to trauma, which is defined as a stressor that causes intense fear. I think it is pretty safe to say that most of you regardless of why you have dp/dr are scared to death of it. If it wasn't a scary and truamtic experience we wouldn't worry much about it.

The symptoms of stress disorder include a combining of one or more dissociative and anxiety symptoms with the avoidance of reminders of the traumatic even

Anxiety symptoms connected with PTSD stress disorder include irritability, physical restlessness, sleep problems, inability to concentrate, and being easily startled.

Terms

Depersonalization
A dissociative symptom in which the patient feels that his or her body is unreal, is changing, or is dissolving.

Derealization
A dissociative symptom in which the external environment is perceived as unreal.

Dissociation
A reaction to trauma in which the mind splits off certain aspects of the trauma from conscious awareness. Dissociation can affect the patient's memory, sense of reality, and sense of identity.

Trauma
In the context of ASD, a stessful event.
t. Dissociative symptoms include emotional detachment, temporary loss of memory, depersonalization, and derealization

 

[Da'Burgh]

I think I know what you mean by the "superstitious" subject. Like for instance, I always see the number 43 like everywhere. Freaks me out but I think it just sort of an obsessional type thought. If anyone else knows what I'm talking about or have heard of anything similar, please post.

 

[Ben]

Da'Burgh,

Yeah - I can see that: the superstitious stuff. I do kind of see what he's talking about now that you brought up your example - thanks for pointing that out. There have been times when I was thinking about a particular movie and then, upon turning the TV on, the movie is going.

This kind of thing doesn't really spook me much, though, as I really see it as probably the result of our hyperactive minds. Our minds are constantly working on things - picking up subtleties here and there. This kind of thing makes me wonder if my brain could, say, subconciously, remember what channel I left the TV on and get reminded of that as I, say, pass by the TV Guide, noticing a particular show that happens to be on. The weird coincidence made me think - subconciously - about the movie at that particular time, and gave me the "inclination" to turn the TV on and watch. Yet, voila - my "conscious" mind goes "Weird!"

The only reason I believe this kind of even to be more possible than any kind of ESP is that, first off, I've never met anyone with convincing ESP (myself included), and that, secondly, usually after pondering the situation a bit I can come up with a lot more rational explanation for the situation than transcendental coincidence. I also naturally like solving puzzles - so these kind of odd coincindences make me interested in knowing how it happened.

I do, definitely, see what you're saying though.

 

[Guest]

i thank you all very much for your input, this information was very helpful to me. sometimes i guess i freak out, sometimes more than other times, and think that i am crazy in some way. I thought PTSD also at first, and i tried to get help from a psychiatrist or psychologist or whatever the ones are that prescribe medicine and do therapy. He said I had disthymia and anxiety. About a year ago my paranoid thoughts were a lot stronger, and at one point I had a lot to be paranoid about and knew what I should fear and shouldn't fear, but it freaked me out when things i never thought would happen, that i didnt fear and never really thought about ended up happening. I told the doctor about this in more detail and he put me on antipsychotics, which made me feel way crazier than lsd ever did, and made me feel real gone. i guess the antipsychotics dont help when you are paranoid for a real reason. i did some things i really really regret while on antipsychotics and wish i never would have took them. he gave me xanax for the anxiety and that helped but after 2 months it stopped working and started having a bad effect on me. i don't wanna take anything that is that habit forming and makes me that tired and forgetful. his answer to that was that the side effects would go away with time, but they didn't. i quit taking them slowly, and it was hard even like that. to this day i still can't remember a lot of things that happened during those 2 or 3 months. i also tried trazadone for sleep, and some other tricyclic antidepressants because i didnt wanna try ssris again. he tried to give me maois also but i didnt get it filled after i read the interaction with food and beer. hey i guess i like tuna fish and becks beer sometimes and don't wanna die from a deadly combination with a maoi, and didn't want increased anxiety about trying to tell people that i eat or drink something because of the medicine i took.

i tried ssri's about 7 years ago and it had very bad effects, so i didnt take the ones he gave me because i didnt want the bad effects that i get from them. i was forced to take them by my parents when i had anxiety and didn't want to goto school, and had a hard time making friends, and they never worked on me right, they made me feel more anxious. The docs answer to this was to take more and more until i am taking 6 times the normal dose of prozac, paxxil, zoloft, etc. I took so much that it made me shake, gave me insomnia, and made me have very bad mood swings. Its pretty sad considering i was only in 6th grade, probly 12 or 13 years old, i could have ended up killing myself if i would have kept on listening to them and taking all their miracle medicines, and i was in DARE classes so i never did any drugs like the other kids. Maybe i should have been taking what everyone else i went to school with took, marijuana, ecstasy,etc, and i might have been fine, who knows. i never liked the conventional therapy because i couldnt trust them enough and they couldnt relate to my situation ever and there is only so much you can say to someone in one hour a week. i would rather talk to a friend or something.

What i mean about superstitions is more about chance and bad luck. like the chances of bumping into someone in a busy place, or the chances that something will get knocked over, the chances of a balled up peice of paper flying out of the trash after it gets thrown in, or the chances of something not going the way is goes for someone else is a lot higher for me. I think i realize now that this is stupid because i have to take responsibility for things not going right, except for certain little things that i have no control over. i guess i the right word would be obsessive or something about little things that happen for no reason, it's like i feel like these little things are a sign of something, and i am obsessed with remembering these little things and trying to figure out what they mean.

thanks for the PTSD checklist, I have almost every sympton on there. i am hoping they will subside but they have been going on for over a year and i still can't come to grips with some of these things, and i waste a lot of my life trying to deal with the issues. The only thing that helps is music and movies and work, just anything that will keep my mind off of things and won't leave my mind wandering.

I guess i didnt realize the seriousness of DPDS. i see now that i only really have the PTSD and anxiety, dysthimia, etc. Flashbacks and heavy lsd use isnt a way that somoneone could develope DPDS, it can only trigger it for some people. Also caffeine and psych meds have a very bad effect on me, and I saw the list of meds that can cause DPDS symptoms.

And as far as being treated badly by people, it may be due to the fact that my anxiety goes so far sometimes that I can't look people in the eyes when i talk to them, or am too anxious to shake someones hand. they sense the fear, and then start thinking if i am in fear, that I must be doing something wrong. it just seems like it is stronger for me than for others. The cop thought my cell phone in my pocket was a gun. Nothing happened from that, just the cop told me not to move, and the other cop put his hand on his gun, which made me more scared. then the cop put a glove on and put his hand in my pocket and took out my cell phone. oops! other times i have been pulled over and had my car wripped apart from searches i guess because they sense the fear and think i must be doing something wrong. its scary how innocent anxious people could easily be framed in this free country. other times i have been given the hardest, most manually intensive job at a company because I can't bond with people quickly enough to start a professional relationship with them. it takes me a long time to make friends with people, and i have only maybe 1 friend because all my other friends quit talking to me, or betrayed me and i quit talking to them. what is an anxious person to do when traditional meds don't work? marijuana and lsd helped better than the meds in the past but this is only going to make me more paranoid about getting in trouble. alcohol is legal and helps my anxiety somewhat like the benzos did when they worked on me. but its only an option where it is socially accepted, but not at interviews or around people that dont drink or when driving. i guess i will just have to deal with this forever.

Besides SSRIs, benzos, tricyclic antidepressants, and maois, what is the best way for me to deal with PTSD/anxiety? or should i just try to maintain a busy normal life and hope it goes away since i am effected in a bad way by these medications. I might try a benzo with a different half life, xanax, valium, klonopin all put me to sleep. i remember ativan working well on me, but when i asked my doc to switch me to it, he wouldn't and just told me that the side effects of xanax would go away eventually. Why are some people prescribed ativan instead of xanax? what do i have to say to a doctor to let me try ativan or something different than what they want to give me without sounding like a know it all?

anyhoo, thanks for all the help, i will continue to read these boards since you guys have been more helpful to me than years of psychotherapy.

 

[agentcooper]

I think I know what you mean by the "superstitious" subject. Like for instance, I always see the number 43 like everywhere. Freaks me out but I think it just sort of an obsessional type thought. If anyone else knows what I'm talking about or have heard of anything similar, please post.

i always see the number 111 or 1111 and i think it's really cool. it is now my favorite number and when i see it i feel like things are going in the right direction for me. i had a boyfriend who had the same thing with the number 333. he also said that it was comforting thing (as opposed to being scary).

 

[Da'Burgh]

I always see the time 11:11 and it used to be the number 33. I think it went away when I stopped givin' a shit about it. Now it's the 43 thing. It just got to me because I didn't have this problem until my "incident". Eh :roll:

 

[Martinelv]

Sorry to hear that you're having a bad time Matt. If it's of any comfort, a lot of people who have bad experiences with LSD describe symptoms such as you have.

Superstition is coincidence. Nothing more, nothing less. Superstition is born from the hard-wired tendency of our brains to notice coincidences, and forget the rest - therefore attributing something sinister to it. Think about it, a simple example - perhaps you were sitting at home one night thinking about ringing your friend, and lo - they suddenly call you. Spooky? No. Coincidence. What you don't remember is all the hundreds of times you've thought about calling your friend and they didn't call. Similarly with dreams. You might be having a bad dream, which has a black dog in it, and the next day you see a black dog on the street...and your mind immediately makes the connections and summons up all sorts of portents of doom. But again - you've probably seen thousands of black dogs on the street and never gave it a second thought.

We think we are in control of our minds, being rational, reasonable, intelligent human beings, but I assure you we're not. There is a boiling sea of froth and fear just beneath the thin veneer of our waking consciousness. The trick is to recognise the fear for what it is...fear of the unknown, fear of seemingly menacing omens and invisible threats. If you confront these fears, or, which is what I do - ignore it because I don't give a shit, then life can suddenly become somewhat less creepy.

I've heard literally thousands of stories about seemingly miraculous events, mediums, telepathy, incredible coincidences, far-sight, and although of course maybe there is some truth in some of it, who really knows, the reality is that we want to believe in it, even the bad ones, or rather our brain forces to believe (for the reasons give above), then they literally exist as fact. But they are 'facts' that have about as much reality as unicorns and Roswell. And if we want so hard to believe, even in spite of ourselves, then nothing and nobody will change our minds.

It's not particularly surprising, that in this age of cold science and rationality, that people yearn for something more, something less tangible and more mysterious. Some people content themselves with toying with astrology, or indulging a bit of paganism, others gaze in wonder at the heavens and the truly astounding fact that we're alive in an incredible universe. I sometimes dare to think that people who are so desperate for these unknowable wonders are either missing something, or are weary of this world of rain and despair. And I don't blame them. But there is more outside our heads than we could ever possibly have enough time to gaze in awe at...and that is more than enough for me. Of course it's personal preference, nothing wrong with 'hobbies', but I know for a fact that my life is too short to mess around with parlour games and superstition. If I need that, and being human I do from time to time, I'll read a book or take some mushrooms!