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Anti-depersonalization medication

15K views 53 replies 16 participants last post by  Peter 
#1 ·
Ok so I recently met up with my psychiatrist and he told me that an anti-depersonalization medication will not come out in our lifetime for 2 reasons: the cause is unknown and not enough people have depersonalization disorder in order to spend money on the research of DPD. Do you think he's right? I'm scared that I'll have DPD for the rest of my life... Hopefully my psychiatrist is wrong and an anti-DP medication will come out soon..
 
#27 ·
I'm having a bad day today but I'll read through your post properly tomorrow. I do have access to almost every paper listed on pubmed yeah. Hit me up if you want anything. It might take me a while to recover the login details to my uni's academic portal but I'm happy to sort it out. I'm on (hopefully temporary) leave from my masters right now but I still have academic access.
I dropped out of university, because of my disorder. But I can still get 99% of publications by using illegal sites (for example Libgen), using an open terminal at the library of medical school at my former university, interlending or contacting authors.

My TMS is scheduled for October so I'll let you know! I'm thrilled! I had a long chat with the doctor in charge today. She knows what she's doing and said she'll prescribe nalmefene if the TMS fails. I can also return in the future for maintenance treatment if it works. Things are finally looking up for me.
You a very lucky to have found such a doctor. I hope that it will work.
 
#28 · (Edited by Moderator)
Thanks for your kind words! It makes me happy to know that we can help others. Something to live for. ;)

You are very welcome! After all one school of thought is that people are here on earth to help other people. :smile:

I completely understand your reservations about medication after withdrawing from clonazepam. Benzos are a hell of a group of meds. Your doctor/psychiatric/whoever screwed you over when they agreed to let you use them long term. I've heard the horror stories about benzo dependence and withdrawal and I'm glad you made it through.

Believe me the horror stories, as you can read on benzobuddies.org are true.

When I wanted to quit the doctors only words were "you can do it" ... no tapering schedule, nothing!

rTMS is definitely something I am going to ask my new doctor next Thursday.

To give my suggestions body I will need all the current research, are there more than posted on this forum?

What are you (TDX, King Elliott) currently doing after dropping out of university, except scouring the web for dp, dr related information.
 
#29 · (Edited by Moderator)
What are you (TDX, King Elliott) currently doing after dropping out of university, except scouring the web for dp, dr related information.
I'm doing nothing more than trying to kill time to make each day pass as fast as possible. Most of the time I'm watching videos (often Lets play videos) on youtube or kinox.to. At the moment I'm watching "Star Wars: The Clone Wars". It doesn't make fun, thanks to anhedonia. Rationally I know I should do something useful, but I'm suffering from avolition. I had many ideas of meaningful activities, but it's extremely hard to actually do them. At the same time I'm often agitated, which means I have the urge to walk around aimlessly without getting anything done. I can confirm that without his primitive drives the human being gets nothing done and has zero quality of life. Life feels like an endless desert. Cognitive problems and the blank mind cause further problems. I try to sleep as much as possible, to reduce my time and abuse Mirtazapine to do this. I'm serving my life-term in a maximum anhedonia prison.
 
#30 ·
I'm serving my life-term in a maximum anhedonia prison.
You will not. The situation you are currently may seem hopeless. However when you look back on the year 2015 in let's say 5 years,

there will be significant changes in your life. And you will have experienced emotions, because in time you are going to socialize.

It's nearly impossible to not feel anything when around other humans, mainly because most are stupid, shallow and superficial. :)
 
#31 ·
It's nearly impossible to not feel anything when around other humans
Trust me: It's possible.

And you will have experienced emotions, because in time you are going to socialize.
I socialized the shit out of me when I spent 3 months in a psychiatric clinic and I did not experience emotions. My brain is broken and I can only hope that medication or neuromodulation might fix it. I am just realistic. I don't belong to the delusional "We will all recover"-crowd.
 
#35 · (Edited by Moderator)
I'm waiting for TDX to make the first move by explaining his perspective on the successful CBT trial. I don't personally believe the "therapy is useless" line is tenable.
It's a bit complex, because I am seeing both flaws in their theory and in their study, which in my opinion was not so succesful. In my opinion only a small subgroup might benefit from this therapy. At the moment I'm reading again their book "Overcoming Depersonalization Disorder", because it clarifies some parts of their theory, particulary how they handle "negative symptoms" like emotional numbness, which in my opinion is an important weakness of their approach.

I can see where you're coming from but unless our current understanding of the neurotransmitter systems involved in DP is completely wrong, ALKS-5461 will perform at least as well as naloxone.
I share the opinion that ALKS-5461 might be very helpful, but you should be careful to draw too much conclusions from a small uncontrolled trial. While it's true that there is a low placebo effect in DPD you should not oversee the problem of patient selection. For example in the 1990s it seemed like SSRI were the cure for DPD, because Hollander et al published a case series where SSRI put DPD in remission for 7 of 9 patients. There were also other case reports which comfirmed this view. But Simeon et al showed in a proper trial that SSRI don't work in most cases. Hollander might have had a high response rate, because of a non-representive sample, because Hollander seems to be an OCD-expert. The same might be a problem in Nullers study.

I don't want to say, that ALKS-5461 is not promising. It might not only work for DPD, but also for depression (which it is mean for), anxiety, addiction, PTSD, Borderline and even for some cases in psychosis. But we should not praise it before we have it (which fortunately might be next year).
 
#36 · (Edited by Moderator)
Fortunately, unlike the case of SSRIs, we've yet to see a shred of research that contradicts the indication of KOR antagonists
And I hope we will never see such a thing, but rather the opposite.

What I find infuriating is that there still hasn't been a larger, placebo-controlled trial of naloxone after 14 years. The field of psychiatry gives not a single fuck about us.
That's the problem. Theoretically it's possible by using a port catheter so that the patients whose symptoms stay away to 12 to 24 hours could get an infusion everyday. This could be done at the same centers where methadone is handed out. In my time at the clinic someone told me that he got naloxone infusions everyday, because of his addiction. But I don't know what the longterm effects of naloxone might be...

But as ALKS-5461 is on the horizon they probably won't do another trial with naloxone and also not with nalmefene.
 
#37 ·
Naloxone was clearly never going to be practical for mass use
Well, theoretically I could have been used therapeutically, just like they could have used the Buprenorphine-Naltrexone-combo to treat depression and other disorders.
 
#38 ·
Fair play to you guys...This is the first time ive read this post and im very impressed!

Having suffered with DP for over 20 years I would love a drug that would alleviate my symptoms...

Just as a side note an anti psychotic called Dolmatil (Sulpiride) has really helped me over the years...Ive been on it since day one and it has helped me live a somewhat reasonable life...

The other things i would like to point out is that years of therapy never did anything for my DP...Exercise made it worse and various different healthy eating regimes didnt do squat for it either....

I believe at the heart of this disorder is a chemical imbalance which only medicine can treat (Unfortunately we havent discovered the medicine yet)

On a side note have you noticed that many of the "Complete" recovery stories on here seem to mention a medication..This leads me to believe there are no 100% recovery stories from DP yet....Just people who feel alot better???????
 
#40 · (Edited by Moderator)
This is true but that doesn't mean there's nothing psychological going on or that psychology is irrelevant. Everything is ultimately chemical imbalances but they merely form part of a chain of causation.
The relevance of psychotherapy depends on the mental disorder. While psychotherapy is the first-line treatment for anxiety disorder, OCD, mild to moderate depression, addiction and most personality disorders it only plays the second fiddle in the treatment of organic psychosyndromes, psychosis and bipolar disorder.

I can understand it when someone who's had negative experiences with medication becomes wary of it but there's a large contingent of people who haven't even tried medication and have absolutely no understanding of how it works preaching its axiomatic inferiority to noble suffering in the service of an abstract and uncertain "long term".
I think this might be more because of mentality than intelligence. While psychoanalysis is shunned by most psychiatrists it's still in the head of most ordinary people in the sense that they think in mental disorders that there is "something underlying" in themselves they have to correct. It's a bit like to astone for one's sins and might be partly a remnant of christianity.
 
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#41 · (Edited by Moderator)
What a load of garbage. Who do you think you are? You're no expert on DPD and treatments even though you make yourself out as some kind of super intellectual. I've read a lot of your posts and all I see is someone who's taking a cocktail of pharma meds with very little if any healing going on. I feel sorry for you in that way, but that's your choice to be so narrow minded and load yourself up with your toxic cocktail. I wonder when you're going to realise it's time to change course and look around for something that may help? Lets not talk about the highly addictive nature of the drugs you take ok. That's a battle within itself that one day you'll have to face up to..

When you actually start to recover, maybe then you can command some respect. Until then I'll continue to look at you as some naive kid experimenting with drugs obsessed with the world of science despite the fact that it's got nothing to offer for your condition.

You know something mate.. there's a whole lot of people on this site who choose not to take medication for many reasons. You seem to link the choice of not taking meds to some sort of weakness. Well the way I see it is exactly opposite. The people who don't rely 24/7 on the med cocktail can actually cope with themselves and that's a sign of inner strength, whereas you obviously can't and need to drown out your own feelings and thoughts asap. Man, you can't even cope with your own feelings and emotions and try and constantly run away from them. That's gutless where I come from.

Wake up little Britain. The pharmaceutical companies producing psyche meds aren't here to make you recover, there here to make a profit.. and you talk about how the so called 'charlatan' therapists are lining their pockets with money - have you stopped and thought about how much money you've spent on meds in the past few years? Besides, the OP was exactly right - there are NO MEDS to treat DPD (or any of the dissociative disorders) and there won't be any for many years. So stop encouraging people to chase the rainbow.

You're a troll mate. A troll who does nothing but try and push people into taking toxic meds of little or no value to their condition and at the same time you try discredit anyone speaking out about any form of 'alternative' treatment modalities. Calling people 'scaremongers' and a 'dangerous cancer' because they choose not to take meds.. how pathetic and an attempt at a low blow indeed.

And I like this one... '[background=#f7f7f7]Given the chance, they would unknowingly convince someone to commit suicide before trying medication. I invite anyone who thinks I'm wrong to a debate.' What a stupid thing to say. You're really a jerk you know that.. You can debate that one with your troll mates. [/background]

Come back when you've got something positive to offer....
 
#42 · (Edited by Moderator)
: '[background=#f7f7f7]I've noticed that there seems to be a negative correlation between intelligence and an anti-medication viewpoint on this forum. '[/background]

Zed: 'Wake up little Britain. The pharmaceutical companies producing psyche meds aren't here to make you recover, there here to make a profit.. '

Yep...I agree with you Elliott. What a berk. Many good people are alive solely because of so-called 'toxic cocktails'. Should my friend stop taking insulin for diabetes because it's 'unnatural' and not the 'core' way she really is? What an offensive idiot.
 
#43 ·
Zed has just sent me this in a PM, thought I'd reply in public rather than being nasty in private.

'You know what?.. I was going to have a go at you for calling me an offensive idiot.. then I read your topic "Pharmaceutical advice'. Looks like you've got more troubles than you'll be able to manage anyway.. I prefer to just let you suffer without stirring the pot. Reading through some of what you've written, you obviously don't have much insight into what this disorder is or why you've got it - 2 rather essential pieces of information if you want to heal.

Good luck with plying yourself with useless meds matey! You'll soon see for yourself what I mean about the 'toxic cocktail', though of course you'll never admit it...

Your arrogance will get you nowhere.

Good bye and get fucked.'

Here's my reply.

'You wrote something grossly offensive to those who are only alive because of medication. Guess what - I went down the same route as you, believing that I could make myself invincible without medication and sort out my 'core self'. Then my world crashed down on me. It didn't work, for me. I'm not saying it won't for you - I wouldn't be that crass and presumptuous.

You tell those who are desperately struggling that the things which keep them functional are 'toxic cocktails'. You have no knowledge of their situations. Yet in a hilarious irony, you speak of arrogance.

For all your talk of improving yourself, you have a long way to go as you have behaved in a vile, standoffish manner which is unprompted and unnecessary.

' I prefer to just let you suffer'

Disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself. Go away yourself.'
 
#44 ·
Unfortunately this is what many actually do. Although depersonalization disorder might affect 1% of the population there are no self-help organizations that advocate the interests of the depersonalized. This is because I think that the ignorance of psychiatry is partly a fault of the sufferers themselves, who did not stand up to fight for their rights.
Exactly, lets start an organisation
 
G
#45 ·
Zed has just sent me this in a PM, thought I'd reply in public rather than being nasty in private.

'You know what?.. I was going to have a go at you for calling me an offensive idiot.. then I read your topic "Pharmaceutical advice'. Looks like you've got more troubles than you'll be able to manage anyway.. I prefer to just let you suffer without stirring the pot. Reading through some of what you've written, you obviously don't have much insight into what this disorder is or why you've got it - 2 rather essential pieces of information if you want to heal.

Good luck with plying yourself with useless meds matey! You'll soon see for yourself what I mean about the 'toxic cocktail', though of course you'll never admit it...

Your arrogance will get you nowhere.

Good bye and get fucked.'

Here's my reply.

'You wrote something grossly offensive to those who are only alive because of medication. Guess what - I went down the same route as you, believing that I could make myself invincible without medication and sort out my 'core self'. Then my world crashed down on me. It didn't work, for me. I'm not saying it won't for you - I wouldn't be that crass and presumptuous.

You tell those who are desperately struggling that the things which keep them functional are 'toxic cocktails'. You have no knowledge of their situations. Yet in a hilarious irony, you speak of arrogance.

For all your talk of improving yourself, you have a long way to go as you have behaved in a vile, standoffish manner which is unprompted and unnecessary.

' I prefer to just let you suffer'

Disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself. Go away yourself.'
I'll lock this topic if it can't be constructive. That being said, If ANY MEMBER pulls crap like that in PM again, you will no longer have access to that privilege. Simple enough.
 
#47 · (Edited by Moderator)
Personally I believe benzos are the best, because dp/dr is only truly a problem when it makes you too anxious to function. If you have no anxiety, dp/dr ceases to be an issue. If you can avoid anxiety long enough to get a good nights sleep, dp/dr will definitely begin to lift.
Luckily for most people the relation between dpd, drd and anxiety seems to be so strong that if anxiety is less, dpd, drd will be alleviated.

But benzo's are a patch on an open wound, they will give you temorary relief, by surpressing fears and promoting sleep.

However... what happens, when the patch no longer works, which is the case when benzo tolerance kicks in?

Yes the open wound will fester and causes more harm then pre-benzo's. My dpd, drd has been more intense then ever since tapering Klonopin,

even though my post-withdrawal anxiety, which was sky high for 9 months, has been significantly reduced by meditation and yes medication...

This might sound a bit harsh and negative, but I'm not only reciting from my own experiences. Benzo's are by all means no wonderdrug or dpd, drd cure!

Every medication has it's advantages and dangers though. Every individual is unique, that's why this community is so valuable.

Sharing experiences, knowledge, insights et cetera. Please do not condemn fellow sufferers or their views and actions in PM's or posts.

No individual on this board is all knowing, but together we can come a long way!
 
G
#48 ·
Luckily for most people the relation between dpd, drd and anxiety seems to be so strong that if anxiety is less, dpd, drd will be alleviated.

But benzo's are a patch on an open wound, they will give you temorary relief, by surpressing fears and promoting sleep.

However... what happens, when the patch no longer works, which is the case when benzo tolerance kicks in?

Yes the open wound will fester and causes more harm then pre-benzo's. My dpd, drd has been more intense then ever since tapering Klonopin,

even though my post-withdrawal anxiety, which was sky high for 9 months, has been significantly reduced by meditation and yes medication...

This might sound a bit harsh and negative, but I'm not only reciting from my own experiences. Benzo's are by all means no wonderdrug or dpd, drd cure!

Every medication has it's advantages and dangers though. Every individual is unique, that's why this community is so valuable.

Sharing experiences, knowledge, insights et cetera. Please do not condemn fellow sufferers or their views and actions in PM's or posts.

No individual on this board is all knowing, but together we can come a long way!
Benzos are not a fix, just like luctor said, we've both been on high doses of klonopin and to be honest it helped for a little while but now i'm in the seventh circle of hell. There is no need to go on them, you'll thank me for telling you this, no one told me 10 years ago.
 
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