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A little more about my Tom Cruise rant

8630 Views 67 Replies 15 Participants Last post by  Sojourner
I did some research about the Church of Scientology after finding out Tom Crusie was a devote member of. No wonder he denounces psychiatry since it is the Church's no.1 enemy. I stumbled upon this great site which tries to inform the public about the dangers of this Church, and that it posts many many secret documents ( including many written by hand from L.Ron Hubbard himself).

All I can say is that this religion/philosophy is just as dangerous as it claims psychology and psychiatry to be.

What a load of sci-fi crap. And off course there is some sort of a deal between the church and all these stupid celebs that are members.

Anyway, yes psychology/psychiatry has a long ways to go before it solves and solidifies any claims. However to say that psychiatry/psychology is a pseudo science is quite effrontery.

All sciences started out as hypotheses, and went through an abudant amount of trial and error before any kind of fact could be declared. This is what is going on with these Anti-depressants. There are side-effects which can be very bad for some and we truly do not know if they can cause some permanent changes. However this is the price you have to pay for science. Without mistakes there can be no progress. Yes, I understand that the pharmaceutical companies make big $$$ of these drugs and probably want people to be depressed, anxious, etc however to give such a label to all the millions of psychologists, researchers who are doing all this work just because of the few big drug companies is an insult. Im sure that there are plenty of researchers/psychologists who really are passionate about there work and want to make a difference.

There are many theories in astronomy and many facts that need to be sought out, yet we do not dare to call it a pseudo-science.

You need to start somewhere and starting with chemical imbalances starts like a good starting point,

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Yeah!! You just wait till we find out what "lowly flotsam" means. :evil:

Oh, let's see...1. floating wreckage of a ship. Ummm...that might be down on the Euphoria. 2.vagrant improverished people., I don't think that's us. 3. unimportant miscellaneous material. any other name - Will. :evil:

Post #3 "My, my. What have we here? Someone who's been to each and every psychiatrist and knows everything that each of them does. Who knew such genius existed here on this lowly flotsam in the middle of the Internet?"

Well, obviously you didn't know such a genius existed. Now...shoo, before a house lands on you.


P.S. I just have a thing about smart a$$es. Brings out the flotsam in me. :lol:
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Mmmmmmmm....flotsam. Slobber. It's what keeps the world turning.
Flotsam...reminds me of a dish they'd serve in a greek restraunt or something.
Pure Narcotic:

No doubt some people get relief, but there is also no doubt that thousands get debilitating side effects that lead to death and debilitation.
Whoa whoa whoa. A) The people who are at risk for death and debilitation VERY OFTEN already have psychological or chemical conditions so severe that whatever shift the medication provides will send them over the edge.

B) that statement seemed very strong, as if you were implying that Psychs leave a scorched earth of ruined patients in their wake. But the reality is you have SOME uncomfortable patients, SOME satisfied patients, and VERY FEW PATIENTS WHO EXPERIENCE EXTREME EFFECTS.

Let's keep this real.
Person 3,

You are very naive when it comes to this subject. I was one of those who experienced the severe and debilitating side effects, and I never had a horrible pre existing disorder. Nobody knows the percentages as far as it goes with patients who experience the extreme side effects, withdrawal etc... but it is very bold of you to say that all of these people had severe pre existing disorders. We can say SOME experience it, FEW experience it, NONE experience it, who knows? From what I have read, there are petitions against benzos, anti depressants and anti psychotics on the internet with signatures ranging in the thousands. I would call that more than SOME, wouldn't you?

Some of these people may have been complete whackos, but a good percentage of them were just regular folks struggling with lifes issues and looking for an escape, and ended up in the shrinks office complaining because they were depressed over a lost job, divorce etc..

I realize you take drugs and back up psychiatry because you don't know the other side like i do. That is cool..Just think before you speak and perhaps do some research.
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Pure Narcotic I agree with you.

'Person3' you wrote that some people have prexisting disorders might push someone very close to the edge over the edge.

Whether or not you believe that is true or not, or whether the person just became ill on the medication depending on the particular patient, is it still important not to disposably push any patient 'over' the edge, when these meds do hurt people so that nobodies life is lost, just because not 'every' person gets what would be self-measured as a bad reaction? It seems a little non-equal.

I disagree with your view because its not accurate, but its cool I don't think an argument like situation will help either. You must be unaware yet or unknowing about the details some of the specific side effects like 'tardive akathisia' which causes absolutely unbearable suffering for example, of some of these tablets.

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Neal, with all due respect, I believe you to be the naive one.

Why? Because I know your personality. I know from what you post on here and what I've seen from you that psychology plays a huge role in why you suffered. But because you don't want to admit that, you are keeping yourself in a hole.

And actually I DO know the other side. I have HAD DRUGS HAVE DEBILITATING EFFECTS ON ME. more than you could imagine. But, they were the same drugs that when i took years prior in a DIFFERENT mindset, they did not effect me at all. It was NOT the drugs. It was me.

If I had not stopped blaming the drugs for what I felt they "did" to me, I would have not ever gotten on the road to recovery.

A lot of people don't want to admit that it's more THEM and their psychology than the drugs. The drugs can only do so much.

Also you have to remember, naive one, that a lot of these people take these drugs with certain preconceptions about them BECAUSE THEY ARE PSYCH DRUGS. If you take a drug that will effect how you feel when you already feel bad, it is a risk. Because the reason why you feel bad my have to do wtih your damn personality.

dont even.
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my actual point to neal was this:

the debilitating effects of psych drugs are being over-amplified by a few people on this board. YES people can suffer from the drug, and deeply, and it is absolutely true. but people are looking at this in a very black and white context. The amount of people that have suffered from a psych drug is no larger a percentage than the amount of people that have suffered from ANY OTHER DRUG. IF YOU TAKE A DRUG YOU TAKE A RISK. duh. doesn't take much to figure that out.

but another thing is, the type of personality that most often acquires dp is the kind of person that is FAR too eager to blame drugs or society or something else for what is happening to them. The root of DP is ignoring the parts of YOU that are wrong with YOU and instead blaming outside factors. It's about lying to yourself. So when I see people go on and on and on and on about how a disproportionate number of people suffer severely from psychiatric meds as opposed to any other meds, and that this risk is so huge as to deter or stop OTHERS from seeking treatment, I suspect something's a little wrong here with what they are saying.

I used to do this too, remember. And you know what? I was jealous of the people who benefitted from Zoloft and Effexor, the drugs that "ruined" me. I would lash out on these drugs because I was so jealous that those same drugs could HELP other people and I could not BEAR to face that fact. It made me feel left out in an odd way.

I think there might be some hidden feelings of this kind of jealousy behind some of the anti-med zealots around here. There is too often a hidden motivation behind someone's words when they are too extreme or black and white on an issue.
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LoL Person 3, this argument will go no further because you quite frankly are being quite pretentious and such a debate will just make us both walk around in circles. You think you are right with your theories and I think I am right..There is no convincing us otherwise, so why argue about beliefs within us that cannot be changed? Your words and analysis of my personality do not change a thing about me and beliefs, nor will my analysis on psychiatric drugs and my experience change a thing about you and your beliefs. So lets leave it at that.
So lets leave it at that.
No, please don't - continue bickering.
I think it safe to say the p3 is the naive one. Either that or shes so doped up on her beloved rec and psych drugs that she doesnt know what shes saying(typing). Something has to explain her posts.
I don't think there's any need to argue about this. There are side efects to all medicinal drugs, even paracetamol. The fact is that not even the researchers, doctors or psychiatrists know exactly what happens or all the possible side effects when people take pshycoactive medicinal drugs. It takes years to determine what receptors a certain chemical activates and where in the brain it has certain effects. Add to that the fact that mental illness causes a state of imbalance in the brain it is hardly surprising that some people suffer reactions that are unexpected. It is not helpful to blame doctors, psychiatrists or any other person on this site for that. Their just doing their job.

tis also true that how you feel about taking the drug will also have a significant effect on how it effects you. After all, feelings are just pathways full of chemical rections.

I do agree therefore that a lot more should be done to assess what drugs are, and are not suitable for patients with conditions like our own. Both sides of this argument are RELEVANT. Nobody is right or wrong.

now kiss and make up :lol:
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Disagree with you mostly and know different Welshlad... Although I think that most psycho-active substances including psych meds have the abillity to personify or intensify someones feelings, this is not the whole picture at all to explaining the unpredictability of many of the current medicines in the psych. family.

Besides even if you think thats true, saying that the drug is a gamble and that it works only for some if your in a good mood about taking it in the first place or not apprehensive about its effects, then its seems funny that its being given to treat depression of which the symptoms are always of a negative nature.

Funnily enough a lot of people who decide to try this may be being told it is to 'raise' their mood because of the drugs percieved or marketted benefits, would it be then be normal to request they are not depressed already and that this is the only way it will enhance their mood?

If thats true, it sounds about as scientifically sensible as saying that wine will make you cheery, if your already in a good mood, but if your in a bad mood it'll make you more miserable.

Insulin for diabetes is drugs for depression is not a cross-comparable argument to most if not all of how effective current psych med's are, because there is nowhere near the same precision or understanding of their nature, compared to insulins effect on 1 thing.

Even most psychiatrists will admit there is no understanding of how exactly they work. We don't know enough about the brain yet to completely understand the nature of chemical imbalance.

Your right that 'all' meds have side effects even parecetamol has side effects this is true. Infact anything foreign used in the body will have alterations and effects on the body, whether it be parecetomal, paxil or taking a sports supplement.

But isn't more important, the 'extent' to which a side effect causes harm or the significance? such as when an effect is either dangerous, fatal, or causes excruciating suffering and pain.

You just don't understand the 'extremity' of people's appauling reactions to this stuff or the specific and nameable awful side effects which are selfishly under-researched and bypassed or even forgotten as significant in favour of the drug.

If you are sayin in the way it comes across, then at current you don't have an educated clue that some of these side-effects can't possibly be to do with just a will of a person's mind to their preconceived idea of what the medicine will do to them.

That would be similar to saying that someone who took Phen-Fen who was scared or apprehensive about taking it, is why they may have suffered heart valve damage, which of course is impossible.

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I do agree that alot of these side effects need to be further researched (see my first post), but that's more the fault of the pharmaceutical companies as all they think about is money. As long as there's a market for their drugs they'll do anything to get out of researching side-effects, that pisses me off sometimes.

And your right, I have no experience of these side effects because I've chosen not to take any medication. The medication only masks the symptoms. The only cure is to find a way to reduce anxiety / negative thought toward the dp itself and that includes its causes and symptoms.

I sympathise with you that you've had bad experiences with meds. I was just giving an answer as to why these things happen. As I said, nobody is right or wrong on this issue in what they have said.

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grandma-stole-my-wheels said:
That would be the equivilent of saying that some of the people who took Phen-Fen were scared or apprehensive about taking it, and that's why they suffered heart valve damage.
Of course that could not be the case. Phen-Fen's target site isn't in the brain. You have no ability to change the functioning of your other organs by thinking, but that is possible with the brain.

So, for example if you were not convinced that a drug would work for you felt bad about taking it that may affect its action.

By the way I've just found a very interesting research paper on this subject by an italian research group on:

The influence of seratonin transporter polymorphism and other polymorphisms of the seratonin pathway on the efficacy of antidepressant treatments

To summarise it is saying that they are looking into the effects and side- effects different antidepressants will have on different people with a differant genetic susceptability.[/u]
Phen-fen actually was a 'brain' drug, but not really labelled in the same category as current psych meds (ie. like SSRI's) etc., but it did work on the brain, it partly effected dopamine.

But one specific side effect caused heart-valve damage, which is why it was banned.

You have no ability to change the functioning of your other organs by thinking, but that is possible with the brain.
Besides, your thinking 'can' have an effect on the way areas such as your heart work, if you are excited or nervous, or learning to get through a panic attack, the response travels and begins from the brain, and your thinking.

But when a drug causes a side-effect or specific negative symptom which is physical, that the drug has directly caused, and people react differently, it can't possibly be a product of someones thinking (ie. tardive dsykinesia for example).

Dealing with a panic attack, through a psych med or through your own resolve or thinking, are two completely different attitudes in looking at (that) particular problem.

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good point. This is a complicated issue, like all mental health stuff, just hope other people are asking these questions and doing something about it.
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