A little more about my Tom Cruise rant

8634 Views 67 Replies 15 Participants Last post by Sojourner, Jul 19, 2005

andymania

Discussion Starter · Jul 11, 2005

I did some research about the Church of Scientology after finding out Tom Crusie was a devote member of. No wonder he denounces psychiatry since it is the Church's no.1 enemy. I stumbled upon this great site which tries to inform the public about the dangers of this Church, and that it posts many many secret documents ( including many written by hand from L.Ron Hubbard himself).

All I can say is that this religion/philosophy is just as dangerous as it claims psychology and psychiatry to be.

What a load of sci-fi crap. And off course there is some sort of a deal between the church and all these stupid celebs that are members.

Anyway, yes psychology/psychiatry has a long ways to go before it solves and solidifies any claims. However to say that psychiatry/psychology is a pseudo science is quite effrontery.

All sciences started out as hypotheses, and went through an abudant amount of trial and error before any kind of fact could be declared. This is what is going on with these Anti-depressants. There are side-effects which can be very bad for some and we truly do not know if they can cause some permanent changes. However this is the price you have to pay for science. Without mistakes there can be no progress. Yes, I understand that the pharmaceutical companies make big $$$ of these drugs and probably want people to be depressed, anxious, etc however to give such a label to all the millions of psychologists, researchers who are doing all this work just because of the few big drug companies is an insult. Im sure that there are plenty of researchers/psychologists who really are passionate about there work and want to make a difference.

There are many theories in astronomy and many facts that need to be sought out, yet we do not dare to call it a pseudo-science.

You need to start somewhere and starting with chemical imbalances starts like a good starting point,

-Andy

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[rula]

· #3 · Jul 11, 2005

Even within the psychology vs. psychiatry field, the theory of "chemical imbalance" is hugely debated. that doesn't make psychologist scientologist btw :wink: and even when one is willing to accept that theory, then there's still the question of which came first the chicken or the egg. Do our emotions cause the chemical imbalance, or is the chemical imbalance causing our negative emotions?

theories are great, yes, wonderful starting point. but in astronomy you don't start launching ppl into space before you have facts. in psychiatry however, millions of ppl launch their brain into space daily despite being told that maybe only 30-40% might benefit, the rest might get much worse; you might have to go through a series of trial and error before the right med for you is found, and that's gonna add a LOT of stress on you CNS, and of course, those side effects...now that's science i'm not willing to count on. but that's just me.

-ru

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· #15 · Jul 12, 2005

I personally love the new updated 21st century version of "God", scientologist, Nuwabian, Raelian, whatever...it's all the same basic concept, no different from what we have now. Some Entity(s) whose mailing address is not on planet earth created us and put us here to follow his/their rules. at least the Nuwabians have a nifty video that gosh darn just explains everything...

http://www.nuworldorder.com

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· #45 · Jul 15, 2005

Sojourner said:
- The drugs themselves were initially formulated for a very different purpose

tuberculosis.

- Technically, antidepressants are removing the symptoms not by "masking" them, that is, by covering them with some other symptom.

but you are artificially increasing serotonin instead of addressing why it became low in the first place...so that is masking the problem. and no, to date there's no conclusive evidence that depression can be genetic.

They are stopping the clean-up crew from doing its job completely.

two things. no one really knows why an increase in Serotonin in the synapse sometimes improves mood. fact is AD's don't work for everyone so it seems logical to conclude that there's more to it than just increasing Serotonin levels. and no one knows what that is yet.

the other even more important issue is that resting/reuptake Serotonin is not garbage, it's not always destroyed. it's used to make Melatonin (that's why ppl on SSRI's usually have problems with insomnia) and it's also used to make 5-HIAA a Serotonin metabolite that when low can lead to all kinds of problems, like aggression, violence, suicide, etc...you can't interrupt the natural cycle and expect no consequences.

Don't blame the doctors, please.

maybe not for columbine, but I'll always blame my GP for pulling a 15 mins and a pill and no explanation...7 months later i'm still horribly addicted to that pill. :evil: :evil:

-ru

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· #48 · Jul 15, 2005

dakotajo said:
What drug are you addicted to?

your favorite Joe, Klonopoison. I'm tapering right now, and it's so much fun. :roll:

I'm not trying to deter anyone here from taking whatever meds they're comfortable with and feel might help. I do agree that mindset has a lot to do with how effective these meds can be. I'm not even opposed to the idea of masking symptoms as long as one is working to figure out what's causing them in the first place. But doctors who aren't even psychiatrists (not just my GP) keep prescribing meds for longer than their recommended safe usage guidlines. That's 3-4 weeks for benzos, and 6 months to a year for AD's. Use them longer and you're opening the door to a brand new set of problems.

Sajourner, I can only speak for my own brand of depression. I have 9 siblings, we all lived through the same civil war, the same constant daily fear of death/who's gonna bomb our house next? or will it be a car bomb today (i nearly died of one). we all dealt with the same alcoholic father too, but none of my siblings have ever seen a psychiatrist, been diagnosed depressed or taken an anti-anxiety med. genetic? I doubt it.

-ru

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· #53 · Jul 15, 2005

dakotajo said:
I forgot to ask you something. When did you first experience chronic dp/dr? Was it before or after the klonopin?

After the klonopin for sure. but, for me I know dp is nothing more than a symptom of anxiety, and my anxiety went sky high when I goggled the word Benzo and came across the benzo forum. Then it got even worse when I tried to cold trukey after just 3 weeks, bad idea.

Ray Nimmo(benzo.org) told me he first experinced dp/dr in withdrawal from valium and had it 24-7 for 18 straight months. One day he said he woke up and it was gone and that was the beginning of his valium withdrawal recovery.

never heard of DP dissapearing over night like that. it leaves like it comes on, gradually...Grandma's DP was actually Benzo induced, and it took him around 18 months or so after the cold turkey to completely recover. right Grandma?

Ive always wondered if benzos reduce the output of serotonin which causes thes symptoms of depression, anxiety and even dp/dr.

they do. it's in the Ashton manual.

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· #55 · Jul 16, 2005

Sojourner said:
Where do you live -- Northern Ireland?

LOL. cuz my father was an alcoholic? no, i was born in Lebanon, not typcially known as the land of alcoholism

Your evidence is anecdotal, not scientific. The twins studies were scientific. Remember also that it's the disposition only that's thought to be genetic, and what may have been a "trigger" for you may not have been a "trigger" for your siblings.

The point I was trying to make, and didn't make clearly, is that IF a genetic predisposition existed, and environmental factors clearly existed, and given the number of sooo many siblings, then the odds of depression being triggered should be higher than 1 in 10. I'm not even talking about a DP trigger, no 3-hour panic attack, just a depression trigger.

The scientists are now leaning towards the combo-special theory, it's genetic+environmental+organic. Personally I'm a big beleiver in the organic theory alone, as long as your diet is solid, you're rested and you exercise, your body knows how to blanace out its own chemical; doesn't matter what traumatic events come your way, your body can heal itself. Depression rates are highest in the west where really, let's face it, traumatic events/life problems relative to other parts of the world really are insignificant...but our diet sucks and our food is inorganic and lacks nutrients.

A famous psychiatrist (i believe it was Adler but I could be wrong) said and i'm paraphrasing, "One day it will be discovered that all psychological problems have their roots in something organic".

but you're right, scientist will switch gears again, and they'll decide maybe that the real cause of depression is not having used the word flotsam cleverly in a sentence, by the age of 21.

-ru

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· #57 · Jul 16, 2005

Sojourner said:
Ru,

The above thought is YOUR thought -- please do not project such evil things onto me, okay? It was never my thought. I do not participate in the inferior and immoral form of thinking involved in such stereotyping and I would prefer not to be accused of it.

man, chill...i don't even think an irish person would call that an EVIL and immoral from of thinking. I have many Irish friends, I live on top of an Irish bar, and they think joking about their drinking is funny! exaggerated political correctness is a sickness of american society only. you should try being not so PC sometimes, it's fun.

I was trying to think of an English-speaking country that one could say had a "civil war" -- perhaps Zimbabwe...

relax! i know that's what you were thinking dude. but why assume i only speak english?

but what's the point of talking at all if we don't make sense?

not sure what part didn't make sense to you. i don't agree with the gentic argument, at all, simple enough? but i am sure of one thing, this conversation is now pointless. :lol: :lol:

enjoy ur day...

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[rula]

· #59 · Jul 17, 2005

:roll: :roll: :roll:

ahem, maybe sajourner you forgot that you made the completely baseless guess that I was Irish. no wait, your lame excuse was it's cuz I speak english, that should cover just about 2/3 of the world's population. maybe you should ask yourself why the devil made you ask that question.

your knowledge of foreign cultures is about as deep as your knowledge in anything else really. I mean my name is RULA and I have 10 siblings, and you guessed Ireland?

I'm just amazed at how good christian ppl like you who often bring up things like evil and satanic forces acting in the world, actually are so far removed from having any qualities that Christ would've loved for you to have. your faith is about as shallow as your words.

But Sajourner, seriously, I can't seem to make this site stop emailing me despite turning email notifications off! so pleeeease pleeeease stop replying to this thread, wouldn't you just love this message board without me on it?? hmm?

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· #67 · Jul 19, 2005

Sojourner said:
You don't know whether I am good or not; that's another problem you have.

here's what I/WE all know: you're belligerent, you're rude, you're offensive, you're explosive, you have too much anger inside you. you don't hesitate to call ppl on a support board things like "coconut" "dense" or "retarded". does it make you feel good about yourself somehow? you don't edit yourself when you speak, your form of communication is incredibly ineffective. case in point, when you claimed to want to leave the board, no one who knows you tried to stop you. but if you insist, sure i'm God.

Ethnic and racial alleged humor is not funny. Genocide is not funny. Accusing people of using ethnic stereotypes is as evil as having the stereotypes yourself.

Genocide? stick to one argument at a time, preferably one that's relevant to the topic.

I had my Irish friend and my Irish boyfriend read this thread and they both laughed their ass off at your twisted logic, and your obvious inability to admit that YOU made the connection in your head before I even said anything. but don't freak, no one thought you were evil for doing it.

Rula said the devil made me say something to her, and I responded with a joke about sending the devil over to her.

pure genius again, but i was being sArCAsTIC (some more of my childish writing for ya!)

-r

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