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A few hunches: trying to understand depersonalization

1117 Views 6 Replies 3 Participants Last post by  Dreamer
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For the last few days my mind has been racing with thoughts. I find it difficult to stay focussed on one idea so please bare with me (as always) through this post. I'm discovering that talking about my ideas or how I feel without being shy can be very beneficial. Truly, I've never really done it until this week. I think DP has alot to do with the access you allow the world to have to you, to understand your individuality. I told my best friend everything and she has been really supportive. I'm constructing a new reality by saying what I really feel finally. Again, I can't say thanks enough for this board. I've read many threads here and learned so much from your experiences. I'm less scared about what I'm going through now.

Some people have raised difficult questions about DP, some even pretty thought provoking. Let me contribute to this board by offering you the latter. Now, keep in mind as you read this that I'm famous amongst my friends for my ability to construct conspiracy theories. I may just be lost in my own little world :wink: :wink: , but I like to believe I'm not so off track So view the following as pure entertainment if you like :lol:

There are many things that have puzzled me about what I "have". 10 years ago I was told I had "depression", then it became "looks like bipolar", now after reading the literature I'm leaning for "depersonalization". I talked to my therapist for the second time in two days and we both agreed there's definitely cause to think that I may indeed be experiencing this.

Interesting things I've discovered over the last few days:

I took 5 kinds of anti-depressants for my "depression" over the years. I discover that 4 our of 5 (the 5th I could find no information) have "depersonalization" as a side effect.

Hmmm.

Is it a coincidence that anti-depressants all have "suic***" or "suicidal thoughts" listed in their potential side effect list as well? I've wondered about this for a long time. Who make up that small group (I do for one) that reacts to anti-depressants perhaps both by having suicidal thoughts and "zone outs".... How come there hasn't been more research done into this I wonder...

Which brings me to: the class-actions suits against pharmaceuticals for the undisclosure of evidence that suicidal tendencies correlate more highly in young people as a side-effect. What do those suits and subsequent rulings say about the potential side-effects of anti-depressants on society at large. Who in the scientific community is asking "WHY do youth respond this way" and "WHAT is it about adulthood that lowers that incidence?"

A possibility: Because youth's brain is not fully developed yet to respond critically to events in their life. Because adults have more life experience to handle those shifts in emotions. :idea: :?:

I keep in mind there are few absolutes in life, including explanations. ..

Another thing I wonder about is: what is the real difference between psychotropic drugs like ecstasy, cocaine, etc, and psychotropic drugs like the prozacs and Co. How do either type of drug affect the brain differently?

Which brings me to: why does it say on the bottles of pick-your-antidepressant "It is thought that depression is caused by a chemical imbalance"? Why doesn't it say "depression is caused by a chemical imbalance" ? How come the people who advanced the theory that depression was caused by this never actually offered up any proof. Usually when you have a theory you need to prove or disprove it before pursuing the research further....

What is the most profitable drug man has ever invented? (ok, this last one is leaning toward the conspiracy theory. I'll leave it at that)

I know, I'm thinking too much about things that I'm probably not likely to find the full answers to. I can't help it. :?

I'm not saying that DP is caused by anti-depressants by the way. I'm suggesting that maybe that small percentage of people who have adverse psychological responses to the drugs may have something very much in common (maybe a human brain... maybe it's not good to put stuff in there that wasn't there to begin with just because "it works for most people"...). Even though I took many anti-depressants I've always been suspicious that they really cured anything. Psychoanalysis has helped me far more than the drugs. To me they seem like a band-aid... Evidence I'm finding seems to point to the possibility that they may actually be doing alot more harm then the pharmaceutical industry which has gotten rich off it would care to admit. But maybe I'm getting ahead of myself.

I think the trigger for DP is in my childhood. I was molested by someone in my family and I know that event was very much an influence in my obsessive behaviour as an adult. I wonder if there isn't something about anti-depressants that can amplify the kind of primary DP caused by childhood trauma.

So many factors to understand a story.

I hope I have not bored you with my rambling.

One last question... how many of the DP people here have had suicidal thoughts, and how many of those took anti-depressants?

Good day,
Nancy
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n_boucha said:
Another thing I wonder about is: what is the real difference between psychotropic drugs like ecstasy, cocaine, etc, and psychotropic drugs like the prozacs and Co. How do either type of drug affect the brain differently?
Like the other poster said, SSRIs (Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors) inhibit the action of enzymes that take up Seratonin out of the synaptic cleft between neurons. The net effect of this is more Serotonin available to bind to Serotonin receptors.

Cocaine and other opiates work similarly on mainly the dopamine and adrenaline (norepinephrine to Americans) receptors to illicit similar results (also some effects on Seratonin). Simply put, more dopamine increases pleasure and more adrenaline increases CNS stimulation.

The psychedelics are analogues of one of the neurotransmitters in the brain (e.g. Serotonin for LSD) and so act by effectively increasing the levels of neurotransmitters.

So basically they have very similar mechanisms of action but the effects produced by psychedelics and other illegal drugs are far more potent and mind bending than the prescription ones (though I suppose you could argue that inducing hallucinations/psychosis is as potent as removing them from an individual).

However, both are altering your state of consciousness artificially and so you could argue that they are basically doing the same thing (yet the ones that can be taxed are legal...). I suppose one set is supposed to bend your mind to "normal" functioning while the other are supposed to obliterate "normality". Which does which? You decide :p

Which brings me to: why does it say on the bottles of pick-your-antidepressant "It is thought that depression is caused by a chemical imbalance"? Why doesn't it say "depression is caused by a chemical imbalance" ? How come the people who advanced the theory that depression was caused by this never actually offered up any proof. Usually when you have a theory you need to prove or disprove it before pursuing the research further....
There's three broad reasons that I can think of. The first is scientific method. Essentially you can never prove anything in science, because you have to base your model of how something works on the idea that at some stage in the future it could be proven wrong. So you can't prove something, only prove it incorrect. Therefore science works by approximations and models which become increasingly accurate to reality but can never reach it. Basically if they were to say "This is what causes depression" they could be proven wrong the next year (especially with how fast science moves).

The second reason is to avoid law suits. As above, if they are selling drugs to cure depression and suddenly they are proven wrong, they could be help responsible.

Thirdly you are dealing with the human mind, which is as far as we know the most complex 'entity' in existance. Therefore, like with number 1, you can never be 100% sure of anything, especially given the subjective nature of what you are trying to do.

What is the most profitable drug man has ever invented? (ok, this last one is leaning toward the conspiracy theory. I'll leave it at that)
Alcohol and Tobacco. Case closed. Was this where your conspiracy theory was heading?

To me they seem like a band-aid...
With this, I agree, but it'll probably upset a lot of people here. So to each their own. Basically though you are altering your consciousness artificially with something that you need to keep taking in order to maintain. Isn't the idea to permanently change your consciousness for the better? Well, that's where the argument of using meds as a stepping stone comes in, and gradually lowering the dose etc.
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Monkeydust said:
I don't think we can know if psychotherapy raises the levels of neurotrasmitters or not. If it does, that would imply that somehow the levels of neurotransmitters that the brain "puts out" is dependent on our thoughts and feelings, which seems a little odd to me.
Biological systems work on feedback. Even the most basic cellular functions are regulated by complex interactions of DNA, proteins, enzymes etc.

Is it that far fetched to think that in a system as complex as the brain, which generates consciousness (how we've barely begun to fathom), that similar regulation occurs in response to emotional changes and stimuli?
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