[Psyborg]

a big reason for anxiety and also dp/dr is the feeling of helplessness and lack of trust especially basic trust

what people like us need a lot is CONTROL

my father for example has always terrorized us and beat my mom etc. I had to grow up under his constant terror . not only that but also my teachers were fucking assholes . all the adults I should have get love from and trusted have stabbed me in the back . so what happens then ? you will feel in constant danger and be like "if I cant even trust them ...who can I trust ? if these people even harm me ..who wont ? "

living under such circumstances or having such experiences will also influence your own decisions in life . for example I have been to a school where I was very unhappy ...only to get that degree because my father always wanted me to study . or I have been to boxing gyms were the coachs were shit and total assholes but I have went there for years only because I thought so highly of them aka "they know better than me"

you will also lack the confidense to take what is yours in life . but let me tell you this and please tell this to yourself and believe in it :

YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE HAPPY ! ...YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY WHEN SOMETHING BOTHERS YOU NO MATTER WHAT THE PERSON IN FRONT OF YOU WILL THINK OR FEEL !

YOU HAVE BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS ! YOU ARE A HUMAN LIKE EVERYONE ELSE !

some of you might not get instantly what I am trying to say but if you analyze your life you will see such patterns too I am sure

you can tell me your experiences or how you feel . I am 10000% sure that what I am just explaining you is a big part of why we feel often like shit in general and are unhappy etc

 

[Dancing_master]

I feel this. I always endure things because I didnt have confidence to say what I wanted to say. Feeling helpless yes I am used to....

 

[luluinthefog]

I have a crazy need for control. Thats part of why my derealization terrifies me so much. It makes me feel like I'm losing control.

 

[PerfectFifth]

YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY WHEN SOMETHING BOTHERS YOU NO MATTER WHAT THE PERSON IN FRONT OF YOU WILL THINK OR FEEL !

That's great advice if you want to eventually find yourself beaten up in a ditch and/or if you want to lose all your friends.

 

[Cali123]

I have a crazy need for control. Thats part of why my derealization terrifies me so much. It makes me feel like I'm losing control.

Same!!! I like to be in control too and i just feel like I'm letting this control me. It's just hard for me to find things that help w/o having to go on medication

 

[Psyborg]

That's great advice if you want to eventually find yourself beaten up in a ditch and/or if you want to lose all your friends.

I cant be beaten up easily at all

. and if my friends will leave me because I point out something that bothers me then they can fuck off anyway

btw. I knew this thread wont be too popular . I am not surprised . it is hard to accept the truth . and what I am saying in this thread is the truth

 

[PerfectFifth]

I cant be beaten up easily at all

. and if my friends will leave me because I point out something that bothers me then they can fuck off anyway

btw. I knew this thread wont be too popular . I am not surprised . it is hard to accept the truth . and what I am saying in this thread is the truth

My point is that what you're saying is too extreme. You certainly shouldn't take abuse from others without standing up for yourself. No, of course not. That I agree on. But you can't go acting out your raw emotions completely uninhibited with no regard to the social ramifications of doing so either-and you can't either because such behavior would be highly self-destructive. You have to be reasonable.

YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY WHEN SOMETHING BOTHERS YOU NO MATTER WHAT THE PERSON IN FRONT OF YOU WILL THINK OR FEEL !

This is too black and white and will invariably lead to trouble, and soon. This is like saying "you have the right to go out and dance naked in the traffic while throwing molotov cocktails, no matter what others in the traffic will think or feel!" Eh, okay, let's grant that you have the right for the sake of argument. Will it lead to favorable outcomes for you? No, it won't. Social interaction, too, requires a certain degree of finesse and compromise if you want to be at all successful.

YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE HAPPY !

Everyone has to the right to feel happy, whatever that means, but I suggest that acting without any inhibition in social interactions isn't a course of action that will lead to happiness in the long run. It's something that's more likely to be corrected by operant conditioning sooner rather than later when you notice that people will respond with hostility, and all you get is punishment and little reward.

YOU HAVE BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS !

This, following the quotes above, suggests that acting like a jerk without restraint is a basic human right. If it were, then society would surely be in disarray, or we wouldn't have such an advanced civilization in the first place. Human right or not, it's ill-advised.

 

[Psyborg]

mate this will be interesting I will answer you later in detail . but one thing I can tell you now : you misunderstood me somewhat . I didnt say that you should be a jerk to people or to go into berserk mode for every little thing or whatever . but yeah I will answer you in the evening

 

[Psyborg]

My point is that what you're saying is too extreme. You certainly shouldn't take abuse from others without standing up for yourself. No, of course not. That I agree on. But you can't go acting out your raw emotions completely uninhibited with no regard to the social ramifications of doing so either-and you can't either because such behavior would be highly self-destructive. You have to be reasonable.

but I didnt say or imply that "you should act on your raw emotions completely " or that you shouldnt be reasonable...this is what you got out of it (and I dont know why)

This is too black and white and will invariably lead to trouble, and soon. This is like saying "you have the right to go out and dance naked in the traffic while throwing molotov cocktails, no matter what others in the traffic will think or feel!" Eh, okay, let's grant that you have the right for the sake of argument. Will it lead to favorable outcomes for you? No, it won't. Social interaction, too, requires a certain degree of finesse and compromise if you want to be at all successful.

again you are throwing things together that dont even have anything to do with each other . no I dont have the right to go out and dance naked in the traffic ...because I dont have the right to show myself naked to people and especially when there are children around I have even less of a right to do that (and I wouldnt do such a thing to begin with lol) . you can not just do whatever you want ....you have to respect other people

but I have the right to tell someone no matter if the person is close to me or not that what he/she is saying or doing is making me either uncomfortable or disrespecting me . and I dont have to tell it in an agressive manner at all either

me personally despite being a relatively extroverted person (and someone who is also capable of handling himself well if a fighting situation would arise) didnt say it when a person said or did something which made me feel shit . either because it was people who I loved and didnt want to hurt or because I just was overwhelmed with the situation .

I was way too tolerant to many of my "friends" in the past for example and also let my boxing coaches , teachers , doctors etc treat me poorly because I thought that I have to "bow down" to their bullshit . and this is very destructive

but again ...I am NOT saying that you should give your emotions a free run and always open up your mouth and fire . I will give you an example . some years ago I was in a "casino" (it was not a casino really but a smaller kind of thing but I dont know how to call it in english) where the owners were a few friends and some of the people who played poker were also friends with them . one player who was friends with them did a move that was very unfair and disrespectful towards me . I discussed a little with him but I didnt say too much . if I would have flipped out and call the guy out and a physical fight would happen then it would have been my brother and me ...so 2 people ....against at least 4-5 men at once ....so we wouldnt have much of a chance . the incident was not that big of a deal anyway but in such situations it is of course better to accept that there is not much to do and just leave .

this is actually another good point which gets up here ....you have to be careful where you go to and if you are alone or not etc..

Everyone has to the right to feel happy, whatever that means, but I suggest that acting without any inhibition in social interactions isn't a course of action that will lead to happiness in the long run. It's something that's more likely to be corrected by operant conditioning sooner rather than later when you notice that people will respond with hostility, and all you get is punishment and little reward.

again . I didnt say you should act without any inhibition in social interactions . you interpreted what I was saying in this way without any reason....

This, following the quotes above, suggests that acting like a jerk without restraint is a basic human right. If it were, then society would surely be in disarray, or we wouldn't have such an advanced civilization in the first place. Human right or not, it's ill-advised.

again ...I didnt indicate that we should act like jerks . lol

 

[Psyborg]

hm I think I still havent been understood fully

@Where . yes in the case of the boxing coaches it would have been the best to not go there anymore . so by that I wouldnt give into their bullshit . I didnt say you need to "change people" or have to discuss with people .

what I am talking about is more subtile than that

imagine these scenarios :

1. you are member of a sport club and have already signed the contract so you will have to pay for lets say 12 months for sure and will use the gym . and imagine that the staff , or the coach or whatever is not spending as much time on you as they should . or they are rude often . I am saying that you have to tell them in a reasonable and calm manner "hey I am paying money for this gym . I am a member and I have the right to be treated well and I have the right to get from the gym what I am paying for " instead of coping with it somehow and telling yourself "well they are just humans and have tempers too . well the coach has to deal with so many people so it is normal he doesnt show me much " etc.

2. imagine a friend of you is selfish . for example when he has a problem you listen to him and always help him but if you have problems he doesnt put as much energy into it to listen to you and help you as you do . instead of not speaking it out because you like him you should definitely tell him that this is not okay

--

I am not talking about yelling at the cashier "come at me bro" because he didnt say back hello to you ....lol

 

[ThoughtOnFire]

 

[Dancing_master]

yo man, all what you say makes so much sense and I experience the same bro.

"I was way too tolerant to many of my "friends" in the past for example and also let my boxing coaches , teachers , doctors etc treat me poorly because I thought that I have to "bow down" to their bullshit . and this is very destructive"

I was srsly the same as you exact in this regard. I wish I knew this earlier then I wouldn't be in this bullshit probably.

 

[Psyborg]

yo man, all what you say makes so much sense and I experience the same bro.

"I was way too tolerant to many of my "friends" in the past for example and also let my boxing coaches , teachers , doctors etc treat me poorly because I thought that I have to "bow down" to their bullshit . and this is very destructive"

I was srsly the same as you exact in this regard. I wish I knew this earlier then I wouldn't be in this bullshit probably.

but that is not the root of it . the root why we are (or were) like that is something else . the problem is that when you are living like that your main problem (anxiety , being stressed , being unhappy etc) gets worse . and when it gets worse you fall even more in that behaviour I am explaining and this is fucked up ....because then you either distance yourself from people OR you flip out and go berserk and especially when you get drunk you are way more looking for confrontation etc.

 

[PerfectFifth]

again . I didnt say you should act without any inhibition in social interactions . you interpreted what I was saying in this way without any reason....

again ...I didnt indicate that we should act like jerks . lol

Well, you did say...

YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY WHEN SOMETHING BOTHERS YOU NO MATTER WHAT THE PERSON IN FRONT OF YOU WILL THINK OR FEEL !

...which inevitably leads to acting like a jerk.

So there has been a misunderstanding. You didn't mean what you said quite so literally.

 

[Phantasm]

PerfectFifth, I appreciate the point you are making, but I would factor in that we are typically starting from a point, or deficit, where we are introverted and inhibited, so I don't believe Psyborg was saying to go around yelling at people because you feel like it, but to be able to express and communicate your basic rights to people when necessary and without excessive fear of what others may think or feel when what you are saying is reasonable and justified. I think you are making too much of this one detail which he has already put into context.

Psyborg, I understand what you mean. Basic human rights are a line of thought or reasoning I have used myself for helping break down toxic shame, which is one of the types of negative conditioning that can cause the kinds of problems you describe. So when I needed to I might say to myself, "Everyone has the right to be happy and feel safe," or, "no-one has the right to make another human being feel ashamed of who they are or afraid to live their life." It can be an empowering angle.

As you and others have talked about, I agree control can be such a big part of it for so many people. Obsessively trying to hold onto things which were realistically out of our control, or taking undue responsibility for things, is mentally exhausting. With catastrophic loss of trust we can cling tightly to things, even and sometimes especially the things that hurt us. You can't push something away if you haven't first let it go, and it can be a challenge getting to the point where you're ready to do that.

 

[Psyborg]

Well, you did say...

...which inevitably leads to acting like a jerk.

So there has been a misunderstanding. You didn't mean what you said quite so literally.

by that I wanted to say that when lets say a friend is selfish or makes you feel bad (repeatedly) and you just swallow it only to not cause "trouble" or to not make your friend feel bad (some people do shit and dont even notice they are wrong and when you call them out they get sad or butthurt) that this is not right . also when people in general try to take advantage of you or treat you in a non polite way you have the right to say something against it even if that person might even get scared of you for doing so etc. .

some people might even call you a "jerk" for it even then . but that is because many people seem to think THEY have the right to treat YOU (or people in general) the way they want and they think they do nothing wrong . such people actually do need a reality check and need to be told that they suck

Phantasm you understand what I am trying to say

 

[Dancing_master]

but that is not the root of it . the root why we are (or were) like that is something else . the problem is that when you are living like that your main problem (anxiety , being stressed , being unhappy etc) gets worse . and when it gets worse you fall even more in that behaviour I am explaining and this is fucked up ....because then you either distance yourself from people OR you flip out and go berserk and especially when you get drunk you are way more looking for confrontation etc.

ya i get it i agree