[ecco2023]

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[leminaseri]

(triggering two paragraphs below are a description of how i slid into psych fx in my case. below that is what i personally did to get rid of my fear of psychosis. i do still have chronic dpdr and other fears unrelated to psychosis as a result however)


a person worried they might be schizophrenic or its dpdr? verbal thoughts in their head are beginning to get louder, and they worry it might be voices soon or already is the psych literature says its "loud thoughts" the image thoughts are becoming more vivid, perhaps uncomfortably so maybe they're racing a little too fast these days the minds eye seemingly expanded and just wont stop on the inner screen(s) wishing they i had blank mind instead although you hated that too but it just wont stop wake up the next day and their mind is blank again. they cant even hear their thoughts see any images in the mind. its calmer but they feel depressed and fatigued things seem disturbing or maybe its more vivid than yesterday that day, so much so that they're having trouble paying attention to what your outer senses are registering since there is too much inside unfortunately after a period of months even years the object relational boundaries between inside and outside dissolve one day the images in their minds eye which was either too vivid and caused anxiety or too blank and caused depression now they are outside of their head they are perhaps perceiving it from too far inside like i am falling backwards into my own mind is it hallucination now or anxiety? a bit of psych fx perhaps?


or maybe perhaps the worst as many in dpdr seem to think it is, which it in my opinion isnt necessarily the worst, but often the most feared prodromal schizophrenia itself if the object relations break down more would someone be able to integrate these experiences without losing sanity? how long until delusions take hold? perhaps they are already oscillating on a spectrum of delusional ideation, they dont believe it but the slightly delusional ideas keep occuring to them and they are wondering if you are beginning to believe them. unfortunately at the same time, peripheral outside noises are becoming harder to distinguish from what they hear in their mind, the inner verbal audio thoughts are so loud on this day. they were listening to a thought it was loud they turn their head, did it come from outside? then they realize it was inside their mind. how long until verbal auditory hallucinations? or is that unrealistic? these experiences are normal in dpdr. i personally have had this happen. and seemingly worse. but perhaps it was something good after all. lets just say i took a long walk in the woods on some nights with a rope in the backpack. i had had a roof i knew i could jump from. "if i end up in the psych ward for life and not able to know any better, the condition suddenly deteriorates, when that door closes i wont be around to look at the wallpaper." did i survive dpdr? well yes, however its chronic for me unfortunately. and did in fact lead to a level of psych fx. i actually feel better now. i just am a person with depression, dpdr, and some psych fx.

(trigger warning over)

i see this on various dpdr forums. a lot of people dont end up with psych fx, and a lot of people do in various degrees. after meeting more people with psych fx, for example networking around a steam group called "gamers with schizophrenia" i realized that psych fx is actually not that scary, and is sort of fun. so what if there are sensory illusions? in fact i learned a lot of coping mechanisms for my own clinical depression as a result of networking with functioning schizophrenics (most schizophrenics are high functioning) on steam and video game groups. very pleasant to see up close and to repeatedly find how possible it is to cope with intense mental health symptoms and lead a good life as someone diagnosed with schizophrenia or psych fx. it was a valuable opportunity to also gain knowledge, and made friends with server members who knew a lot about things like object relations of the mind, and what to do when things start seeming a little too psychotic. this happens to magickal practitioners too. ("concentration meditators tend to go a bit mad") ("if you magickally unlock the sense doors which make you see the angels of your subconscious mind, it wont be long until you see demons") in the case of psych fx, there are steps to take to not end up delusional. for example books such as "Handbook of Mentalizing in Mental Health Practice" or the American Psychological Association "Handbook of Healthy Mentalization".


in my case when i admitted i have psych fx and began to engage with the seemingly psychotic aspects of my experience i became less afraid of dpdr and learned to accept myself. a lot of people just are slightly psychotic. if as much as 20-30% of people with clinical depression, or a major anxiety disorder, or ocd, end up developing a level of psych fx and the vast majority of them remain high functioning, in my opinion it really is a strong proof that (although by dpdr forums this is triggering), the same would inevitably happen to dpdr cases too. why would dpdr be excluded from the same general level of psych fx? i keep seing fear of psychosis as one of the major fears that people on forums such as dpselfhelp or reddit /r/ dpdr bring up. the very real fear of prodromal schizophrenia or developing psychosis. one of the major responses to this is that in fact dpdr does not lead to schizophrenia and that dpdr is an "anxiety disorder", although in other cases people claim dpdr is a "dissociative disorder". it is common to maintain that because of this it is not related to psychosis. however i believe this is probably a reassurance type answer, who knows it probably was initially spread and supported by a group of psychiatrists seeking to relax dpdr cases since this is such a common fear. only for those who do end up developing psych fx later would the same psychiatrist finally admit "maybe i sugarcoated it. they are in fact related." clearly it is universally acknowledged dpdr is in large part caused by "childhood issues" and more or less pain through childhood can then cause a person to develop dpdr. the same is also said of schizophrenia. its also pretty obvious to me the level of pain that many people with dpdr are experiencing and how during the development of dpdr it gets worse for various reasons, and that also is affected by the persons explanatory style and coping mechanisms around dpdr. but really dpdr itself also just causes raw pain straight up. it just hurts like a chronic pain condition. i was a typical case of early dpdr in this way too, and fell into the same pattern of fearing prodromal schizophrenia. then again many on dpdr forums also maintain that the fear of dpdr itself can contribute to worse dpdr. experiencing the unreality of the dpdr while letting go of the fear is commonly recommended if a person can let go, which is often difficult because of how scary dpdr actually is especially at first. i still have chronic dpdr but i am no longer afraid i will develop psychosis or schizophrenia. i actually do have a level of psych fx and i find it manageable. it just is a level of illusions, i am able to integrate these experiences. this is of course not to say that brief psychotic experiences that are very intense do not happen, and i agree those can be very scary. if a person has not been gradually developing psych fx, but then has a sudden episode of stronger psychosis they would not have had the time to build the coping mechanisms and ability to integrate the experiences in a way that is insightful. especially if they wake up in a ward suddenly the next day, which has been talked about a lot and has happened to a lot of people who are meditators. this is a pretty common topic actually in forums like /r/streamentry which is the "technical meditator" subreddit that grew out of mainstream ./r/meditation. in meditation circles it is universally acknowledged more or less that meditation will eventually cause satori experiences, siddhis, etc. and also dark night of the soul. and a decent amount of people absolutely will have a psychotic episode or several. dpdr is interesting in that it is written by psychiatrists and such that worries about "philosophical themes" are common for those experiencing dpdr. contemplating philosophical themes is a form of meditation, specifically it is a "contemplative practice". and just like breath meditation or whichever school one chooses to meditate in, i believe can cause the same exact things that people in /r/ stream entry talk about when it comes to dark night of the soul or psychotic experiences.


there is a fear about this in the meditation communities too and many rough stories of people who eventually had these psychotic experiences. after the brief psychotic experience is over however, the person generally is back to their regular level of insight however they may have lingering psychotic symptoms and some of their sense door modalities and such might be sort of wired differently from then on. generally most meditators after brief psychotic experiences not only are able to have insight over the linger psychotic elements, but in fact become stronger in their chosen contemplative pursuits. actually these psychotic experiences are a necessary part of growth. a good search term on google for this is called "meditation induced psychosis". in my opinion, many of us with dpdr because it seems in dpdr there is a lot of the time unresolved philosophical issues that occur for the person (perhaps they are concerned about free will, or solipsism is a common one, how large outer space is, and very many other themes) the contemplation (or forced unwanted thoughts about these themes which force contemplation), effectively create a forced meditation on to a dpdr person in many cases.


so in my opinion many of us w dpdr are essentially risking meditation induced psychosis. meditation teachers tackle the topic of meditation induced psychosis and i think some of these perspectives of dealing with psychotic experiences that happen as a result of meditation / contemplation / philosophy post-fact of the psychosis, would be helpful for someone who is dpdr and has fallen into the pattern of being afraid of prodromal schizophrenia. if you actually look at the stories of meditators who end up with meditation induced psychosis and the outcomes of what happens afterwards, it is actually surprisingly quite benign compared to some of the catastrophic scenarios those in dpdr forums are imagining it will be. so even if the psychosis happens someone w dpdr would be able to cope with it the same way many of these meditators do.

(i talk about dpdr a lot on my personal blog, which is also a lot of about video games and things like that. however if you are interested my blog is at flar1s.blogspot.com)

my dpdr developed mainly due to the fear of psychosis/prodromal schizophrenia. i misinterpreted my horrible depressive symptoms (like insomnia, loss of emotions, apathy, racing thoughts and strong derealization) into prodromal phase and all the anxiety around that let skyrocket my dpdr symptoms and it is now chronic since 2020. i still not now what is going on with me. everything is so blur and distant from my personality..

 

[Chip1021]

In my view, a person who is honest with himself cannot be or become psychotic. You might experience your own thinking with exceptional clarity and intensity for whatever reason, and you might find the content of your self-conversations to be annoying or disturbing, but as long as you acknowledge that it is you who is doing the thinking, you will not “lose reality testing” as psychiatrists idiotically put it.

 

[leminaseri]

In my view, a person who is honest with himself cannot be or become psychotic. You might experience your own thinking with exceptional clarity and intensity for whatever reason, and you might find the content of your self-conversations to be annoying or disturbing, but as long as you acknowledge that it is you who is doing the thinking, you will not “lose reality testing” as psychiatrists idiotically put it.

well in that time, when i feared schizophrenia, i also got thoughts where i couldnt know if its mine or not. it was hell. nothing could me reassure that i wont go psychotic