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*Dreamer*

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#352853 Nitrous Oxide AKA Laughing Gas

Posted by *Dreamer* on 26 May 2015 - 10:12 AM

I told my dentist (even past dentists) that I have DP and DR.  They know what that is, or what "dissociation" is as they give drugs that cause you to dissociate.  Surgeons also know about this as they may give ketamine during surgery.

I will never let a dentist give me "twilight sleep" ... or any procedure that requires that ... say cataract removal.

You can ask for a short acting benzo if you tolerate it, but I also ask for lidocaine -- local anesthetic.

Granted the oldy good part of my body is my teeth, LOL.  I have had only one crown, and cavities filled.

IMHO.  I have heard people say when they wake up from dental work, "Is this the real world?" -- there is a video (which I find rather mean) of a father capturing his son's experience after dental work where "twightlight sleep" was used.  Granted kids squirm all over the place.

The kid was carrying on for a while, and I know he was briefly experiencing DP.  Thing is for him it passed.

Anyone who has a greater tendency to dissociate -- I woulld ask for local numbing stuff -- it really works.  Don't feel any pain, but you hear sounds, etc.  I'll take that any day.

  If there is something major you need done -- such as wisdom teeth they will knock you out cold -- propafol these days I think.

Take Care.




#352623 Use Stress to Your Advantage

Posted by *Dreamer* on 20 May 2015 - 02:58 PM

And here we go, someone else confirm that it's not anxiety/depression/dpdr that affects us, it's our REACTION to it. 

Stress can indeed be positive to a degree.  There would be no anxiety instinct in animals (and I see us as complex animals) if it didn't serve some purpose.  It protects us in dangerous situations ... a survival mechanism ... fight/flight.  And it is normal for a healthy person to feel anxious and vigilant when going down a dark alley at night.  Being focused, hyperaware, etc. That is live-saving.

But when anxiety is pathological -- and it is the most common mental health disorder -- it can be paralyzing.

There are ways to alleviate the suffering of chronic anxiety ... and of course it occurs on a spectrum.  But it is too simple to say an attitude alone is going to make a difference.

I have mentally healthy friends who have extremely high stress jobs -- entertainment industry, finance (handling million dollar accounts), doctors under constant pressure.  Most have no idea what I'm talking about when I talk about the level of daily anxiety I have, not to mention serious anxiety.  I will ask over and over -- "What makes you anxious?"  It takes them a long time to find any example.  Generally for many it is "first time on a job" or a "job evaluation" or maybe "giving a presentation." And many people with severe anxiety force themselves and are able to "push through" serious anxiety ... but they are subject to burnout.

Also, anxiety comes with most mental illness.

I see MD resident psychiatrists who rotate out every year -- they are in charge of my meds.  I have an ACSW thearpist who is a permanent member of the staff.  I have yet to find a psychitrist who had experienced the level of anxiety I have ...

One wonderful guy said he had experienced DP/DR.  He had been up for 48+ hours in the ER.  He felt he didn't know what he was doing when a serious trauma came in.  As he was trying to figure out what to do, he felt severe DP/DR.  He had to work through it, but could barely function and a nurse coached him.  When he took a break and went to sleep for a few hours he was OK.  Never came back.  He said to me "OMG how can you live with this chronically?"  That happened to him once or twice.  He knew the ER was not the place for him.  No shame in that.

I believe you are a medical resident Sunjet?  I wrote a response to you in one place where I am really surprised by your lack of empathy for psychiatric patients.  And it is a fact that doctors frequently look down on individuals with mental illness even when they come in with serious medical conditions.
I have been insulted, "babied" and worse by many doctors.  One PATTED ME ON THE HEAD.

I will give the link to my response in another place.  You may have not read it.  It really troubles me if you plan to be a doctor of any kind and have such little compassion.  I work with mentally ill individuals daily and they all have the same story.  And some residents are honest with me and note that mentally ill patients are discussed and joiked about.  My mother was a psychiatrist -- she did the same thing -- made fun of her patients in front of me, even when I was a young girl.




#352435 Seriously debating a Risperidone injection

Posted by *Dreamer* on 14 May 2015 - 07:58 PM

I made a rotation through psychward for 1-2 weeks and all patients who had Risperidone where just some veggies that don't care about anything. It's just numbs you totally and you are like a walking zombie.

 

My thought that this med is good for those with intrusive hallucinations, strong psychotic outbreak and who are really going mad.

 

I wouldn't recommend taking it for DPDR no matter how severe is. Better find a good anxiolytic or/and antidepressant.

First, to answer the OP's question, I also would be hesitant to go with IV vs. attempting to take this orally.  It could very well help, but my experience with old antipsychotics has been a horrible increase in my DP/DR.

And to Sunjet, your description as a medical student on rotation through a psych ward is unbelievably cruel, especially for someone who has some form of brain disorder.  I know (my parents were physicians, and I've heard this from medical residents) that doctors in all specialties, on the whole, look down with disdain on psychiatric patients, without compassion, and don't seem to understand that such individuals can be terribly sick and yet go into remission and be highly funcioning members of society.

I know indiviuals who have been hospitalized for psychosis (schizophrenia, schizoaffective, etc.) and have been given all manner of such medications.  Yes, they may feel doped up and LOOK doped up.  That doesn't mean they aren't sad, terrified, anxious, lonely, and deserve respect.

It is painful to hear that you have no empathy with your OWN experience.

Yes, this medication could really dope you out, but you aren't a vegetable, not knowing what's going on. You are a human being who has been given a drug to help you (all that is available now) that also makes you feel terrible.  That's true of chemotherapy.  Would you have no sympathy for someone undergoing therapy who is so zonked out they can't see straight?

There is a human being inside every person with mental illness.

One friend of mine, who works full time, and better than I do, took 12 years to fight a psychotic break.  In the hospital, drugged to the hilt, she was still aware of what was going on.  She wanted to die as she was so frightened, so frightend the medication wouldn't work.  She was even discharged one time when her ability to hold her bag of belongings in her arms and take a cab home was virtually impossible.  She couldn't tell the taxi driver where she lived even though she knew she had forgotten, and it was due to her being loaded up with meds and discharged because the doctors needed to empty the ward for another patient -- before she was ready to leave.

Don't judge someone without walking in his/her shoes.




#352341 John77's suggestion

Posted by *Dreamer* on 11 May 2015 - 04:55 PM

John, it's  great this worked for you, but it doesn't work for everyone.  Anyone with depression, anxiety, ocd, basically any mental disorder can experience DP/DR as part of the illness.  So different types of medication sometimes help the symptoms of DP/DR, or can make them worse.

One person who really understands DP/DR in my "real life" is a friend who has a psychotic disorder (not clearly diagnosed) and that disorder is in remission.  She has a variety of medications, none of which are antidepressants.  She also uses "every tool in the toolbox" -- therapy, exercise, diet, socializing, working, mindfulness, etc., etc.  EDIT: My friend originally didn't have DP/DR until some years into her illness. Then it "switched on and off light a lightswitch" -- ultimately with a change in anit-psychotic medication it "switched off" completely.  However every few months, it creeps up, and she has to focus away from it. It is not chronic and will sometimes pass on its own. Mine has been chronic for essentially 50 years.  And believe me, I have tried every med, and form of therapy, exercise, lifestyle, etc. My primary diagnosis is DP DISORDER.  Not DP as secondary.

There are many individuals I have known over the years who have SECONDARY DP/DR as a symptom, and others whose primary problem is DP/DR.  For me that is the case. Also no medication is a cure.  It is considered that mental disorders improve greatly, or are in remission.

I'll again posted the latest interesting finding on DP/DR as sort of an inverse symptom of true PTSD.
See my website about me and my experience.  56, still DP/DR ... a helluva lot of verbal abuse ... and no internet, not the same meds available to me when I was a young person.  I was diagnosed immediately in 1975 with depression, anxiety and DP/DR and was told by my M.D. psychiatrist at the time that "DP is incurable."  That cut me to the core.  He was about 45 years old.  Very respected psychiatrist.

Every case is unique to each individual.




#352266 Hemispheric Approach to understand DPDR symptoms

Posted by *Dreamer* on 09 May 2015 - 01:09 PM

Interesting, but this comes from a layperson's blog. Recent research from the Brain and Behavior Research Foundation has a significant breakthrough in understanding DP/DR as a special subtype of PTSD.

 

If you consider true PTSD, it is HYPER arousal -- over arousal.  DP/DR is HYPO arousal -- a "shutting down."  There is some indication that 30% of those with PTSD are in a subgroup that have DP/DR.  And PTSD is an anxiety disorder.  This gives us new insight.

https://bbrfoundatio...eople-with-ptsd


Altered Circuits May Cause ‘Out-Of-Body’ Symptoms in Some People with PTSD
May 01, 2015

Margaret McKinnon, Ph.D.

For some people with post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), symptoms go beyond the flashbacks, nightmares, sleeplessness, and tense feelings that trouble many. Up to 30 percent of people with PTSD also suffer from symptoms known as depersonalization and de-realization––that is, they experience “out-of-body” episodes or feelings that the world is not real. These disturbances to awareness and consciousness are known as dissociation.
New research now reveals that brain circuits involved in fear processing are wired differently in these people than in others diagnosed with PTSD. The findings, reported in Neuropsychopharmacology, suggest that such patients need different treatment options.



PTSD with dissociation is recognized as a distinct subtype of the disorder. It is most common among people whose PTSD developed after repeated traumas or childhood adversity. Genetic factors can also increase the risk of developing PTSD with dissociation.

Studies have found that reminders of traumatic events trigger different patterns of neural activity in patients with dissociative PTSD than they do in people who have PTSD without dissociation. In both groups, emotion-regulating brain circuits are thought to be disrupted. Emotional responses are undermodulated (under-regulated, or controlled) by the brain in most people with PTSD, causing them to relive traumatic events and experience hyperarousal symptoms such as being easily startled. In people with the dissociative subtype of PTSD, in contrast, emotional responses are overmodulated (over-regulated) by the brain, leading to emotional detachment and the subtype's characteristic feelings of depersonalization and derealization.

Senior author Ruth Lanius, M.D., Ph.D., of the University of Western Ontario led a team of scientists that included two-time (2007 and 2009) NARSAD Young Investigator grantee Margaret McKinnon, Ph.D., of McMaster University in Ontario. The scientists used functional magnetic resonance imaging to compare activity in the brains of 49 people with PTSD, 13 of whom had been diagnosed with the dissociative subtype of the disorder. Their study also included 40 people without PTSD.

The researchers focused their analysis on parts of the brain that connect to the amygdala, a small structure deep in the brain that is involved in emotion and fear processing. They examined connections to two parts of the amygdala: the basolateral amygdala, which evaluates sensory information and helps integrate emotions, and the centromedial amygdala, which helps execute fear responses.

They found that in the brains of patients with the dissociative subtype of PTSD, the amygdala was more strongly connected to brain regions involved in consciousness, awareness, emotional regulation, and proprioception (the sense of body position) than it was in PTSD patients without the dissociative subtype. The researchers say that patients' dissociative symptoms may be directly related to these alterations in the brain's functional circuitry.

 

..........

Senior author Ruth Lanius, M.D., Ph.D., of the University of Western Ontario led a team of scientists that included two-time (2007 and 2009) NARSAD Young Investigator grantee Margaret McKinnon, Ph.D., of McMaster University in Ontario.
 




#352265 [Trigger Warning] I finally found out what ACTUALLY caused my Depersonalizati...

Posted by *Dreamer* on 09 May 2015 - 01:00 PM

It is known that certain antibiotics cause depersonalization, but it usually passes once a mentally healthy individual goes off of it.

There is an article around here about minocycline.  One side-effect is indeed DP.

A number of past members of the board have experienced DP from a tentanus shot and other antibiotics. The reason is not clear.

If you have taken rec drugs as well, it would be difficult to sort out which contributed.

Also, re: rec drug use, there are SOME individuals who suffer no ill effects when used for recreational purposes.
SOME of us are predisposed to mental illness and a rec drug can indeed TRIGGER various psychiatric problems such as HPPD, dissociation, and in some cases can trigger a first attack of psychosis, or one episode of psychosis.

In a sense ALL chemicals you ingest from caffeine to alcohol to Rx meds to OTC meds to Rec drugs are affecting your brain in some way.  Lingering affects can happen in some people for varying degrees of time.

This is a medical fact.  You have a predisposition + a stressor (such as a rec drug) and it can result in a brief or extended negative event.

Ketamine for example IS a dissociative drug.  It is used during certain surgeries where individuals are partly "knocked out" or have no memory of an event such as invasive cardiac procedures -- insertion of a stent, etc. This is well known in all specialties.  Dentists use "twilight sleep" that can cause temporary dissociation and afterwards all sorts of symptoms including DP/DR -- but not in EVERY person.




#352264 Word Salad

Posted by *Dreamer* on 09 May 2015 - 12:52 PM

When I speak out loud around other people I get scared that what I say will make no sense. Often after I say sentence out loud without thinking about it, my heart kind of drops and I have to think about what I just said to make sure it makes sense, and the people around me were able to understand it. It is like I have the tendencies of schizophrenic in this sense, but the difference is that schizophrenic's are not aware of their non sensible sentences.

 

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Word_salad

 

Anyone else get like this?

NO, you do not have any schizophrenia tendencies.  Schizophrenia is a severe, dramatic, disorder.
If people understand what you are saying there is no way you are speaking in a "word salad."

Please people do not self-diagnose, or go searching the internet for terms that have nothing to do with anxiety or DP/DR, etc.

You may feel anxious, your mnd may seem to "act slower" and you may be so self-conscious that you really can't put thoughts together.  THIS IS NOT SCHIZOPHRENIA or "word salad."




#352239 Research - PTSD - special group with DP/DR

Posted by *Dreamer* on 08 May 2015 - 04:51 PM

This could be the true definition of "Complex PTSD" which is not an official psychiatric term.

This could be applicable to those of us with a background of long term abuse.

https://bbrfoundatio...eople-with-ptsd

 

Altered Circuits May Cause ‘Out-Of-Body’ Symptoms in Some People with PTSD
May 01, 2015

Margaret McKinnon, Ph.D.

 

For some people with post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), symptoms go beyond the flashbacks, nightmares, sleeplessness, and tense feelings that trouble many. Up to 30 percent of people with PTSD also suffer from symptoms known as depersonalization and de-realization––that is, they experience “out-of-body” episodes or feelings that the world is not real. These disturbances to awareness and consciousness are known as dissociation.

New research now reveals that brain circuits involved in fear processing are wired differently in these people than in others diagnosed with PTSD. The findings, reported in Neuropsychopharmacology, suggest that such patients need different treatment options.

PTSD with dissociation is recognized as a distinct subtype of the disorder. It is most common among people whose PTSD developed after repeated traumas or childhood adversity. Genetic factors can also increase the risk of developing PTSD with dissociation.

Studies have found that reminders of traumatic events trigger different patterns of neural activity in patients with dissociative PTSD than they do in people who have PTSD without dissociation.

 

In both groups, emotion-regulating brain circuits are thought to be disrupted. Emotional responses are undermodulated (under-regulated, or controlled) by the brain in most people with PTSD, causing them to relive traumatic events and experience hyperarousal symptoms such as being easily startled. In people with the dissociative subtype of PTSD, in contrast, emotional responses are overmodulated (over-regulated) by the brain, leading to emotional detachment and the subtype's characteristic feelings of depersonalization and derealization.

Senior author Ruth Lanius, M.D., Ph.D., of the University of Western Ontario led a team of scientists that included two-time (2007 and 2009) NARSAD Young Investigator grantee Margaret McKinnon, Ph.D., of McMaster University in Ontario. The scientists used functional magnetic resonance imaging to compare activity in the brains of 49 people with PTSD, 13 of whom had been diagnosed with the dissociative subtype of the disorder. Their study also included 40 people without PTSD.

The researchers focused their analysis on parts of the brain that connect to the amygdala, a small structure deep in the brain that is involved in emotion and fear processing. They examined connections to two parts of the amygdala: the basolateral amygdala, which evaluates sensory information and helps integrate emotions, and the centromedial amygdala, which helps execute fear responses.

They found that in the brains of patients with the dissociative subtype of PTSD, the amygdala was more strongly connected to brain regions involved in consciousness, awareness, emotional regulation, and proprioception (the sense of body position) than it was in PTSD patients without the dissociative subtype. The researchers say that patients' dissociative symptoms may be directly related to these alterations in the brain's functional circuitry.

-----------------
So again, it may be appropriate to move DP/DR related to childhood trauma to the Anxiety Disorders under
PTSD - dissociative subtype.

Makes sense to me.  More research to be done.




#352193 Awareness post made it to 100 shares!

Posted by *Dreamer* on 06 May 2015 - 09:00 PM

Thank you so much dude!  I've had shares from my post.
We keep getting the word out.
<3




#352151 [Trigger Warning] just gonna end it all.

Posted by *Dreamer* on 05 May 2015 - 08:57 AM

It's difficult on any internet forum for any of us to help you directly.  If you really feel suicidal, tell someone, someone you trust, hopefully someone who loves you -- a parent, a sibling, anyone. Do you have a therapist?

Also, as someone mentioned above see an Ear, Nose and Throat doctor.  Right now I am going through some bad vertigo and it's been a week.  I can't do anything but sit up straight or lie diown.  This has happened in the past and usually passes, so far it hasn't.

 

At any rate, there are a number of treatments for this.

Check out a physical cause and treatment if that is what you need.

Also, I have noticed that when I am especially anxious my tinnitus (ringing in the ears) gets bad, and one time, I literally couldn't hear out of one ear for a day.

Also, there have been many times in my life when I have thought of suicide.  I am glad I never went through with it.  You sound very young, I am 56.  And I don't claim to be stronger than you re: this mess.  I only ask that you reach out, not here, but to any close person in your life, and literally make an appointment with an ENT.

I could kick myself at this point for having this (mainly vertigo where I can't drive my car and can barely get around) and not getting the final test where they cause you to have vertigo as there are many types.  You can also determine if you have a hearing loss, and they can also look in there and figure out a lot.

Even if I live moment to moment, it has ben worth it.  My life has taken me many places, many intersting places.  It isn't the life I wanted, but it is life.

Talk to somene close to you -- a parent even -- now.
Best,

D




#351885 Did Virginia Wolfe have DP?

Posted by *Dreamer* on 28 April 2015 - 12:16 PM

"I felt a Funeral, in my Brain,
And Mourners to and fro
Kept treading--treading--till it seemed
That Sense was breaking through--
And when they all were seated,
A Service, like a Drum--
Kept beating--beating till I thought
My Mind was going numb--

And then I heard them lift a Box
And creak across my Soul
With those same Boots of Lead, again,
Then Space--began to toll,

As all the Heavens were a Bell,
And Being, but an Ear,
And I, and Silence, some strange Race
Wrecked, solitary here--


And then a Plank in Reason, broke--
And I dropped down, and down--
And hit a World, at every plunge,
And Finished knowing--then--"


- Emily Dickinson -
I identify with this poem very much, yet, I  believe she is describing depression.

I would say Slyvia Plath in "The Bell Jar" may have been describing DP/DR, but it is difficult to tell.  The title is telling however.  I remember when I read it as a young woman it scared the Hell out of me.  She also took her own life.




#351743 Serious Question I need answered from DP experts?

Posted by *Dreamer* on 23 April 2015 - 08:32 PM

 

 

Anxiety is NOT the cause of dissociative disorders. Anxiety is a common symptom of DD's, as well as OCD, depression, social isolation, self esteem issues etc. I've read many times here people being told by their doctors or counsellors "DPD is a symptom of anxiety" or "or DPD is just anxiety", but this is not true. It's NOT JUST anxiety. Anxiety is different to the dissociative disorders. Once you begin working on and taking away the dissociative 'disorder', the symptoms fade also. It's no good treating just the symptoms b/c the dissociation will always be present, and THAT'S what's causing the problems/symptoms in the first place

I don't think we can say what causes dissociative disorders.  It is a combinatioin of many things, just as are all illnesses, physical and mental.

And again, Dissociative Disorders is a very specific category whether the category is correct or incorrect at this point.
Dissociative Disorders are:
1.  Depersonalization/Derealization Disorder
2.  Dissociative Amnesia and Fugue State
3.  Dissociative Identity Disorder
4.  Dissociative DIsorder Not Otherwise Specified

Each are a different type of perceptual disotortion of self.  DPD stands alone in having no amnesia.

Anxiety Disorders are a separate category
and for example OCD is an anxiety disorder as is PTSD, GAD, Social Anxiety.

And no one truly understands the Dissociative Disorders in particular.  One thing that is agreed upon is that when someone has a panic attack (and that could be associated with any number of diagnoses) a SECONDARY or resulting symptom of a panic attack is DP/DR.  This is specifically noted in the DSM-5 and is more commonly known.

However, in the DSM-5, DPD has been recognized as a disorder unto itself.  And the causes are SPECULATED about.

---------------------------------------------

As has been noted so many times, no one here is an expert, and experts in the field to not agree on what they see causing DP/DR symptoms although, yes, there seems to be a connection with verbal (not physical abuse), rec drugs, some Rx drugs, and other brain truamas.

Generally doctors are of one of two schools of thought -- psychoanalytic, or more medical.  One focus' more on Nurture/Environment, the other on Nature/Predisposition, etc.

There is no simple answer really as to the "why" and exact treatment of any mental illness specifically.  We know that if we use a holistic approach ... therapy, lifestyle, and meds (the basic "three legs of the stool") ... we can come closest to a higher quality of life and what I call remission.  I was just at a meeting where we discussed that for most of us mental illness is a life long issue, but that doesn't mean there can't be a great quality of life.

As usual, we are unique.  We are only experts on our own situation, which is unique to each and every one of us.

Also, in a sense things do "come out of the blue."  That is an apparently normal child can develop autism at 14 months.  Someone can develop schizophrenia anywhere from birth to around age 30.  After that it is rare for it to come on.  But one could say, "How did that happen?"  But one could say that about a child with a birth defect, an adult who gets lung cancer, etc.

There are MANY explanations, and MANY ways to go about treatment. And treatment is limited to the research we have so far. We have a long way to go.

I suppose others have said the same thing.

But I also think it is unfair to state that those who choose "X" way of looking at their illness are "keeping themselves sick."  Saying that, and seemingly stating that as fact, serves no purpose and helps no one.  We should look at what is common in our experiences, learn from those things, and learn from how we have coped.




#351391 dissociative identity disorder and DP

Posted by *Dreamer* on 13 April 2015 - 08:44 PM

I have read Steinberg's work and her  book "Stranger In The Mirror" ... I have taken all of the tests myself in her  book.  I also participated on this board some years back re: The Cambridge Depersonalization Scale.  I have taken yet another test through the University of Michigan (I live in this town, my doctors/therapists are here).

I have found faults in every dissociative disorder scale that is available -- and researchers agree as well.  NONE is a "gold standard."  There are questions one can ask on any number of these tests where someone who is perfectly mentally healthy says, "OMG, I must have DP!"  Questions such as:
"I feel spacey." -- everyone feels "Spacey" at one time or another
"At work I stare off into the distance and daydream and lose time." -- common with anyone


I won't write all of these down.  But the point is, even the MMPI and other tests are imperfect.  Tests are endlessly updated, and if you look at the article I provided they used quite a number of tests.

I am not saying I have all the answers, and neither is anyone else for that matter.  There is a debate, and that is a fact.
This all began when the OP asked if his/her having DP/DR would mean he/she would develop DID.  I don't this person at all, but I have never found that to be the case.  And I do not claim to be an expert.  But there are faults in ALL diagnoses.  I have several friends with children who HAVE NO SPECIFIC DIAGNOSIS as they fit no specific category.


One friend has a child who has been diagnosed with everything from schizophrenia to autism to severe social anxiety, etc. Often there is no clear cut diagnosis for brain disorders, not to mention these various tests.  When a doctor attempts to treat a psychiatric patient, he/she looks at an entire picture (if they are any good). 

There have been cases where psychiatrists have misdiagnosed patients who actually have a neurological disorder, and neurologists have misdiagnosed patients who actually have a psychiatric disorder.  This is not cut and dried.  And much of this must be studied FOR YEARS TO COME.

I posted ONE article.

Here are many more.  I am no expert, but I have read, studied, spoken to people, gone to seminars, etc. TO HAVE AN OPINION, NOT AN ANSWER. IMHO is the word.

If you wish, here are a bazillion other articles.  Take your pick.  As the saying goes, if you read an article dated 2015 it is out of date.  Work done 10 years ago is out of date.

There is no need to debate this further.  I don't know why I'm defending myself.  I would have to write a 50 page Master's Thesis to present my POV.  And I very well could be very wrong.


Here's a million more things, or look in Wikiepdia, a medical library (I go to the one here at U. of M. -- I am an alumni and am allowed access but can't check things out.)

Here's more.  ONE artitcle or ONE test or ONE person's opinion is never THE answer to everything.  I grabbed that article to prove that my BPD vs. DID theory wasn't something I made up.  It is a REAL debate.  Some doctors/psychoanlysts still believe there is MPD ... multiple alters, upwards of 10 or more in people.  I am not of that school of thought and have found the BPD model fascinating.

Choose any one of these articles.  There are a bazillion more.  The one I chose is one amongst thousands of research papers.

•    Axis I dissociative disorder comorbidity in borderline personality disorder and reports of childhood trauma.[J Clin Psychiatry. 2006]
    •    The scientific status of childhood dissociative identity disorder: a review of published research.[Psychother Psychosom. 2011]
    •    [Dispute over the multiple personality disorder: theoretical or practical dilemma?].[Psychiatr Pol. 2006]
    •    Dissociative phenomena in women with borderline personality disorder.[Am J Psychiatry. 1994]
    •    [Dissociative disorders: from Janet to DSM-IV].[Seishin Shinkeigaku Zasshi. 2000

    •    Psychotherapy and Pharmacotherapy for Patients with Dissociative Identity Disorder[Innovations in Clinical Neuroscience. ]
    •    An Archetype of the Collaborative Efforts of Psychotherapy and Psychopharmacology in Successfully Treating Dissociative Identity Disorder with Comorbid Bipolar Disorder[Psychiatry (Edgmont). ]
See all...
Links

    •    MedGen
    •    PubMed
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    •    Dissociative Identity Disorder
See more...

    •    Professional skepticism about multiple personality.[J Nerv Ment Dis. 1988]
    •    Clinicians' self-reported reactions to psychiatric emergency patients: effect on treatment decisions.[Psychiatr Q. 1990]
    •    Review Dealing with alters: a pragmatic clinical perspective.[Psychiatr Clin North Am. 2006]

    •    Hypnotizability and dissociation.[Am J Psychiatry. 1990]
    •    Review Hypnosis, childhood trauma, and dissociative identity disorder: toward an integrative theory.[Int J Clin Exp Hypn. 1995]

    •    Multiple personality disorder and borderline personality disorder. Distinct entities or variations on a common theme?[Ann Clin Psychiatry. 1993]
    •    Establishment of diagnostic validity in psychiatric illness: its application to schizophrenia.[Am J Psychiatry. 1970]

    •    An office mental status examination for complex chronic dissociative symptoms and multiple personality disorder.[Psychiatr Clin North Am. 1991]
    •    Spontaneous hypnotic age regression: case report.[J Clin Psychiatry. 1984]

    •    Are multiple personalities borderline? An analysis of 33 cases.[Psychiatr Clin North Am. 1984]

    •    Initial and follow-up psychological testing on a group of patients with multiple personality disorder.[Psychol Rep. 1986]


    •    The psychological organization of multiple personality disordered patients as revealed in psychological testing.[Psychiatr Clin North Am. 1991]
    •    Review Familial and social support as protective factors against the development of dissociative identity disorder.[J Trauma Dissociation. 2008]

    •    Intellectual functioning of inpatients with dissociative identity disorder and dissociative disorder not otherwise specified. Cognitive and neuropsychological aspects.[J Nerv Ment Dis. 1996]
    •    Dissociative identity disorder and prepulse inhibition of the acoustic startle reflex.[Neuropsychiatr Dis Treat. 2008]
    •    Frontal and occipital perfusion changes in dissociative identity disorder.[Psychiatry Res. 2007]

    •    Memory and awareness in a patient with multiple personality disorder.[Brain Cogn. 1988]
    •    The objective assessment of amnesia in dissociative identity disorder using event-related potentials.[Int J Psychophysiol. 2000]
    •    Interidentity memory transfer in dissociative identity disorder.[J Abnorm Psychol. 2008]
    •    Interidentity amnesia for neutral, episodic information in dissociative identity disorder.[J Abnorm Psychol. 2003]

    •    Hippocampal and amygdalar volumes in dissociative identity disorder.[Am J Psychiatry. 2006]
    •    Amygdala and hippocampal volumes and cognition in adult survivors of childhood abuse with dissociative disorders.[Acta Psychiatr Scand. 2008]

    •    Review [Dispute over the multiple personality disorder: theoretical or practical dilemma?].[Psychiatr Pol. 2006]

    •    Review Recent research on multiple personality disorder.[Psychiatr Clin North Am. 1991]

    •    Jane and John Doe in the psychiatric emergency service.[Psychiatr Q. 1989]
    •    Review Dissociative identity disorder and schizophrenia: differential diagnosis and theoretical issues.[Curr Psychiatry Rep. 2008]

    •    Establishment of diagnostic validity in psychiatric illness: its application to schizophrenia.[Am J Psychiatry. 1970]

    •    Review Dealing with alters: a pragmatic clinical perspective.[Psychiatr Clin North Am. 2006]

    •    Review Dealing with alters: a pragmatic clinical perspective.[Psychiatr Clin North Am. 2006]


Well, these posts are good to print out and use as notes and references.  I am not a neuroscientists.  I am not a doctor.  I am not a psychiatrist.
I am a mental health advocate who is trying to understand the complexity of the brain.  I have never said I was anything more.
I still really insist everyone on this board read Dr. Sierra's medical textbook on DP/DR



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#351311 dissociative identity disorder and DP

Posted by *Dreamer* on 11 April 2015 - 09:06 PM

I've got a question or 2..

 

In your 30 years experience working with psychiatrists, psychologists, doctors, counsellors and researchers, have you ever met anyone who's said they can successfully treat people with dissociative disorders?

 

During your time within the metal health sector, have you ever spoken at length with a patient who's successfully been treated for dissociative disorders and gone on to live content and fulfilling lives? 

It is so difficult to have a simple answer to these questions.

1.  Yes.  Over all of these years I have had doctors, therapists, etc. who said they have had success eliminating DP/DR in other patients -- but my first doctor told me DP/DR is impossible to cure -- (that was in 1975 and didn't give me a great deal of hope).  I am referring specifically to DP/DR, not to any other dissociative disorder.  However, NO doctor, has ever said to ME they can eliminate MY DP/DR.  They have offered various forms of help, and the help available to me was minimal really until the late 1980s.

In psychiatry as with every other profession, some think they have the answers to everything, and others admit they don't.  I admire those who don't claim to have all the answers.  No one does.

In my case what has helped is Klonopin and Lamictal, Dialectical Behavioral Therapy, talk therapy (to sort out my psychological isssues -- low self esteem, getting into destructive relationships, understanding my parents, etc.)  Also, exercise, volunteering, taking university classes, yoga, mindfulness, socializing, helping others etc.

As for researchers, if you read the literature, I have not come upon any research that says, "Here, this is the cure for DP/DR."  You really should read Maricio Sierra's textbook.  I can't write it out here.  It is the first medical textbook dedicated entirely to DP/DR ALONE.  ONLY DP/DR.

2.  Re: patients of all kinds ... with DP/DR and with other mental illness ... MANY can have fulfilling lives and I know several people personally who had EPISODIC DP/DR which has gone into remission -- it seems when this is chronic (as with me -- you don't get "relief" which reminds you you felt better and build upon that, but I can cope FAR better than I did as a young girl and teen).  Or they may only have brief episodes.  And they are not afraid of it.  Many still have anxiety, depression, or some have other major disorders.

If you look on the board, and look at individuals online (I did not get online and find so many DP folks until I was 42 ... I felt very alone for years). ... you will find stories by peole who say they are cured.  How that happened, I don't know.  They explain their story and say what they did or didn't do.

I won't go on, as this is so complicated.  Whatever works for someone is great.  But right now medicine doesn't have all the answers to everything.  Humanity does not have the answers to all the problems of life.

We do the best we can, advocate for ourselves.  And what helped me a lot -- but not eveyone can do this -- is speak out, talk to others openly about my DP.  Working with others with mental illness -- you aren't judged.  Everyone understands, no matter what they have.

Oh, and Nav ... thank you for calling me clever.  But I am a lass not a lad. :)

There are no absolutes in this life. None.  No guarantees for anyone.  Whatever path you take, have faith in what you are doing.
I also think love and support is critical.  I did not have that for decades.  My parents were never there for me.  I have no siblings or extended family.
My story is mine alone.

I HIGHLY recommend Dr. Sierra's textbook -- full of decades of research, and other books I have listed on my website.  I'll post that.




#351293 dissociative identity disorder and DP

Posted by *Dreamer* on 11 April 2015 - 03:05 PM

As I said, we all have our own opinions.  I have made it very clear how I have come to mine.

And I am not alone in my beliefs ... I cited an article from 2009 ... and if you go on PubMed or Elseiver, FierceBioTech, for current (2014) articles on DID and the dissociative disorders you will come upon the same debate.

As noted, there is great similarity between BPD and DID (formerly MPD).  Hence, it has been debated for a long time, and many researchers feel it does not belong in the Dissociative disorder category, but could be considered a dissociative aspect of BPD.

As noted, those of us with chronic DP/DR or DP/DR that comes and goes ... those with that specific symptom do not suffer from amnesia.  The other dissociative disorders include amnesia.  Hence, it is debated that DP/DR should remain as a dissociative disorder.

This takes DP/DR our of the "spectrum" so to speak ... as DP/DR may be experienced by those with DID, but it is very common with those with BPD.

The explosiion of MPD cases in the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s in the UNITED STATES -- I cannot speak for the UK have declined sharply.  As noted, MPD was considered very rare.  It then went from virtually unknown to 40,000 cases over a period of two decades.  As far as Satanic Ritual Abuse. The key cases here in the US -- Little Rascals Daycare and others proved to be false.  Children were testifying that they were taken up into spaceships and raped.  They told therapists that they were told to sacrifice rabbits, etc.  Well, investigators -- police, forensic teams of all sorts in ALL of these cases dug up the area around these areas and found NOTHING.

Many of the children, as many individuals under duress, confessed to things to get therapists from asking them questions over and over again.  It is common for individuals to confess to a murder they never did when grilled for 12 hours by police.  They feel if they confess they will be allowed to go home, go to the bathroom.  They are sleep-deprived, screamed at.  They will recant the testimony.  And sure enough another perpetrator will be found.
 

Thank God for DNA, and better forensics.

All of the satanic ritual accusations really destroyed any belief in the dissociative disorders.  As I said, doctors were sued.  Innocent people went to jail.  Patients who believed they had 100 alters had to be deprogrammed.  The storm began to blow away by the end of the 1990s.  And again, the continuing work of Elizabeth Loftus, and in depth research into famous individuals who supposedly had MPD, even came forward themselves to say they were drugged, threatened, wanted to please, etc.

Here in the US -- the concept of DID is in limbo.  And DP/DR has been left out in the cold.

This isn't to say that with many mental illnesses don't experience memory problems, etc.  Many have DP/DR, and as noted AGAIN, MPD/DID is believed to be BPD by a large number of researchers.  You didn't read the article I cut and pasted.

I would have to look up DID in the ICD and I can't find it though it's there somewhere.  But in different countries, different individuals have completely different symptoms.  No two people are alike.  I believe in India, those who are diagnosed with DID only "chage" states after they go to sleep.  However brain scans and complex tests show DID is NOT understood but looks more and more like BPD, and some doctors interpret some of the symptoms, including hearing voices, as DID.

The two founding ISSMPD members that I worked with changed their stance from MPD to DID.  There are a group of doctors who remain believing even in alters, and therapists without medical degrees do so.

I did not make any of this up.  This is also taught in seminars I have gone to, etc.

I was seen, as someone the product of verbal abuse and neglect as NOT having dissociated from the abuse.  I was viewed as someone who was prone to disconnect as I was severely overstimulated by screaming, chaos, and threates of abandonment.  On the other hadn there is a lot of mental illness in my family .. so I have a high genetic component to having mental illness.  Also, if you have a mentally ill parent -- said parent may be "odd" at minimum and abusive or sick themselves.

No doctor I have ever seen has claimed to know how much is Nature and how much is Nurture.

I don't stand on my own with this.  You can talk with plenty of researchers and therapists aof all kinds who have the same theories as I do.  I happen to agree with them.

And believe me, doctors who treat trauma these days do not avoid medication.  They are moving more and more towards a holistic approach which is very refreshing.

No use discussing this anymore.  Unfortuantely many here self-diagnose.  I try to discourage that.  Also, you don't have to believe whatever a doctor says.  You can refuse treatment or medication.  Here in the US also, we do not have public health insurance.  We have private health insurance which does not cover much re: mental health care.  Very sick people get no help or very poor assistance.  This is why I volunteer as an advocate and have worked with mentally ill individuals for about 30 years.

Peace.