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#619596 Depression and existential thoughts

Posted by PerfectFifth on 15 July 2020 - 05:44 PM

Like, "mh, I'm really experiencing all of this right now, but why? why am i even here, what's the purpose of all this?"


What do you want for an answer? It seems that you're assuming some sort of human-relatable reason here, some sort of agency and objective purpose behind it all, like there was some entity—who of course thinks exactly like a human—who thought it would be cool to have all this stuff doing all this stuff, and so it made the stuff do stuff. Yeah, you're not the only one, hence the existence of so many different religions. We just want to shove agency everywhere; it's natural for us to do so. Doesn't mean there is actual agency everywhere. There is probably no reason, at least the kind that would satisfy you, for your existence. There sure are physical processes that gave rise for your existence, but there isn't some grand cosmic narrative with a protagonist and antagonist that you're probably looking for here. 


Here's the reason for your existence: billions of years of evolution. 


I think your question is essentially a loaded one. You're assuming something unsubstantiated in your question. It's basically asking "what purpose did my creator have (for me) when he made me?" I think your question has that embedded into it. I'm sorry if that's ultimately a strawman, but that's how I interpret your predicament. 


Clearly the evidence, what we know of biological organisms and the universe, won't satisfy you as a reason for your existence. That's why you're grasping here. You seem to want something you can relate to, that there was a consciousness that wanted something with us humans. You want objective purpose given to us by some sort of agent. Something neat and convenient like that, that appeals to your human mind. Well, you're out of luck and stuck forever if that's what you want because the evidence is not coming in.


For those who've also suffered from depression while dp'd, how did you deal with the existential thoughts?

DP never gave me any more existential thoughts than I had prior to it. I don't see why it needs to. If my sense of self is distorted, I have no reason to attribute it to anything but some sort of neurological disturbance because that's what it really is. Nothing more. The self-construct is a result of the physical interaction of neurons just like everything else, and prone to abnormalities which then directly impact your consciousness. 

#619516 when thoughts triggers no metabolism and emotions anymore

Posted by PerfectFifth on 13 July 2020 - 09:13 AM

Now, “Runtome” have asked about emotional numbing for over a year. I have replied him 3.times and he then asks, he don`t read the reply. One can hope he reads 10-20% of ones writes. But, it is the same question, as always, just with the word metabolism added to the question he asks. 

Same theme as some individuals have with the solipsism stuff. 

#619404 Real vs not real

Posted by PerfectFifth on 10 July 2020 - 09:22 AM

Before i read this i actually came to the same conclusion about myself existing. I know i have to exist. The other part is like what if awareness can pick up on things that are impossible too? Like that they appear too as impossibilities and i wouldnt know it? So far the only thing ive proved is I (as in just my awareness) exists but idk about anything else. This questioning does sound very irrational i know, but it freaks me out enough to consider it.

Yeah, it's quite irrational. Something being "impossible" is more or less just a tautology for something not existing, so you're back to square one. How can thing X be impossible if it's there for you to sense and clearly has a form? Clearly it *is* there and exists in some sense. If I'm not entirely mistaken, you're probably talking about those objects being illusory in some way, as in their essence is somehow different from how you perceive them (or how they seem to exist in this reality), or that they're "fake".


I haven't dropped my go-to response to these threads yet, so here we go: why does it matter? Why does any of this matter? I couldn't care less whether this is actual, fundamental reality or not, whether my existence is solipsistic, etc. It makes absolutely no difference, and I can't prove it one way or another. It's little more than a waste of time to even think of this. It gets you nowhere. It's an intellectual dead end. 


Whether a table "really exists" is ultimately irrelevant to me. Why? Because it exists to me, and everyone else in this existence, in practice. I can utilize it. It exists to me in this reality, whatever the fundamental nature of said reality. I'm in this "container", and all that matters to me is what takes place in the container and how it operates, how the laws within the container work. The ultimate realness or whatever of the stuff inside the container is irrelevant. And besides, I have no reason to assume it isn't fundamental reality. 


Okay, everything may be fake and so on. Now, tell me why this matters to you. This life is what it is, and it's going to keep going like it has been since you were born, until your death, whatever the fundamental nature of it.


This pondering would be worthwhile if it was at all possible to even investigate. But no, it's not. It's impossible to prove or disprove. 

#619352 Real vs not real

Posted by PerfectFifth on 09 July 2020 - 02:17 AM

How can your awareness not exist if you're aware? Seems like a logical contradiction.

It all started with me thinking what if i can perceive only things that dont exist, including myself.

This makes no sense to me. If they didn't exist, would it not follow that there should be nothing to perceive at all? Something that doesn't exist surely should be unavailable to our sensory experience. It shouldn't have any form at all because, by definition, if something doesn't exist, it is nothing, or rather it isn't anything. If there is something to perceive, then something must exist.


Because you're aware, your awareness must exist in some sense. If your awareness didn't exist, you would be dead, in a fully vegetative state, or you simply would never have existed. 

#618664 Fucked up mean disorder

Posted by PerfectFifth on 13 June 2020 - 05:44 AM

Why do you litter the forum with so many pointless threads like this? No one ever replies to most of them, so all they do is clutter the place and stand in the way of actual active, fruitful threads. This thread basically has no topic at all. It's just an empty complaint. 


It's an established pattern by now. I often know what thread is by you before even opening it, especially when I see a barrage of them in the "Latest Posts" section. 

#618652 Fear all my thoughts are determined? By God or someone that’s not me.

Posted by PerfectFifth on 12 June 2020 - 08:56 AM

I think everyone's thought generator works similarly.  Great minds think in parallel, and all that.  I think it is important to recognize that the thought generating process is temperamental, and can be disturbed

by "mental" illness,  Mentally ill minds also think in parallel, which is why the DSM-V categorizes the parallel universe of the mentally ill into specific diagnosis. I've been there.  My mind was like an upset stomach,

burping and farting inappropriate thoughts and suggestions for the intellectual chairman's  review.  

I think we have to be careful about drawing direct analogies to "physical illnesses" (quotes because even mental illnesses are ultimately physical!) because the causation mechanism is often not analogous.


This is my view of the matter: most (probably not all) mental illness is not caused by anything abnormal occurring in the body. They're simply normal responses to an adverse environment. To say, then, that "mental illness" is like the flu would be incorrect as in the case of the flu, there's an external viral agent; there's a clear abnormality that isn't part of the body's normal functioning. I suppose mental illness would arguably be more analogous to something like diabetes as that is more like a response to an unhealthy environment. You stuff the body with too much of a negative external factor, and its systems break down due to excessive stress. You could argue that mental illness works the same way: you expose the brain to too many external stressors, and its function and therefore the psyche of the person suffers for it. 


Nothing abnormal, no endogenous pathology, is actually occurring; it's just that the natural, normal threshold for a certain external factor has been crossed. 


So, in a nutshell, my point is that the machine is working as intended, exactly as designed. The machine, even though it seems that way on the surface, is not malfunctioning. It's just reacting normally to the inputs given by the environment. The machine's design could be said to be incompatible with the inputs it's receiving from its surroundings, and that's how its "illness" results in. 


But you could object that "So what, coronary artery disease is caused by atherosclerosis, which is primarily caused by poor diet. That doesn't make it any less of a disease. It's normal and expected of the body to react this way". And yeah, that is correct. I guess drawing analogies to non-mental illnesses can be perfectly valid, at least it seems that way to me. But "depression is like the flu" seems incorrect as it's due to a virus, a clear external agent, not due to a slow build up of adverse external factors.


I think in mental illness, the biggest problem is where to draw the line between illness and normality as there is no clear empirical biomarker. Filling questionnaires and rating your mood on a scale from 1 to 5 only goes so far. It's pretty arbitrary. How do you distinguish between ordinary bouts of mental difficulty and "mental illness"? 


Well, from this ramble, one thing is clear: I haven't thought this through properly. 

#618574 emotionally abusing yourself

Posted by PerfectFifth on 10 June 2020 - 05:53 AM

Thank you. You live and you learn

That's a great attitude. I was in no way insulting you or trying to be condescending, and you took my post exactly as it was intended, as nothing more than friendly advice. 

#618494 This is what I think depersonalization is

Posted by PerfectFifth on 07 June 2020 - 03:31 AM

Wow, it's been a while since I've read so much text that isn't based on anything. It's like they took every possible New Age crank idea and put them all together. 


Here, let me tell you what DPDR is caused by: it's caused by your consciousness being out of tune with the Vibrations of the universe. These Vibrations are kind of like the heartbeat of the universe. You have to free your Mind and reinforce the connection to your soul through meditation to become one with the universe's Vibrations again. That's the only way you can be cured of DPDR. 


See how I just DECIDED based on NOTHING what DPDR is? Yeah, that's what the author of the site did. Exactly that. There's no evidence basis for either their claim or my claim. 


I do understand the appeal in these concepts. That's the reason they're so popular. They appear to make sense intuitively. It's a fictional framework that puts the world in a neat box where everything is explained somehow. But that's all it is. And it's comforting. For example, reincarnation assuages our fear of the unknown, death; the concept of there being a soul comforts us because it makes us feel special with something permanent instead of us seeing ourselves as merely evolved primates with only a transient existence; the universe being a conscious entity and caring about us, again, comforts us because we feel like there's some kind of daddy-figure that always watches our back; and so on. Problems arise, however, when you try to apply these to actual, practical life. When you apply something that amounts to nothing but wishful thinking to practical matters, you're not going to get results. There's a reason we moved on from superstitious medicine to secular medicine, you know, actually curing illnesses. Attributing a neurological problem like DPDR to some superstitious nonsense is not going to help whatsoever, just like attributing your headache to God being mad at you isn't going to help either. 


It makes sense to me


So it makes intuitive sense to you. Is that sufficient for determining its truthfulness? Would you want to live in a world where we base our knowledge on "it makes sense to me"? I wouldn't because in that case we'd still be living on a flat earth where diseases are cured by exorcising evil spirits. 

#618236 How do you find the cause?

Posted by PerfectFifth on 29 May 2020 - 04:57 PM

You don't find the cause because the way you are is the result of interactions too many to count. Of course, with DPDR or a mental problem, in some cases there seems to have been a clear precipitating event, but even then you're only speculating because you can't determine its impact accurately. 

#617914 Do we exist in other universes/future?

Posted by PerfectFifth on 18 May 2020 - 06:14 PM

I am trying to get more stupid day by day

That's pretty original. Usually people try to do the opposite. 

#617902 Do we exist in other universes/future?

Posted by PerfectFifth on 18 May 2020 - 02:13 AM

Jump to search

According to the growing block universe theory of time (or the growing block view), the past and present exist while the future does not.

Eternalism is the theory that past, present, and future exist at the same time.


Personally, I haven't seen evidence for any of it. 

I'm aware. Growing block universe and block universe are not the same. Eternalism is also known as the "block universe theory". 

#617818 100 percent recovery is possible

Posted by PerfectFifth on 13 May 2020 - 11:25 AM

But just as every piece of advice cannot work for every one, can we really say that symptoms can go away for everyone ? Although it can be unpleasant to think about this it might still be true.

No, and believing they can is laughably naive. It's an extremely simplistic way of seeing things. It doesn't properly take into account the possibility that there may be multiple different causes for the symptoms, some of whose resolving may well not be possible with the currently available methods/technology. This community is prone to viewing DPDR in a simplistic manner, as a definite disease of its own, shared by everyone here, with a definite one-size-fits-all cure.


Of course, it's possible for everyone to be completely cured hypothetically. It's hypothetically possible to isolate every molecule in a human being and reconfigure it, building something else, given the right technology (though this might result in death, lol). Whether someone will actually ever be cured, and how viable it is for any given individual, is a whole different matter and depends on the etiology of the particular instance of "DPDR." 


Just as there are many possible causes for headache or fatigue, there may be many causes for DPDR, and thus the mindset of DPDR being one thing with one way to fix it, or there being a way to fix it for certain in the first place, is laughable and betrays a superficial way of thinking. There are many issues for which there currently is no known cure. There is absolutely no reason to believe no instance of DPDR-type symptoms falls into this category. 

#617506 Am I making things appear?

Posted by PerfectFifth on 30 April 2020 - 12:08 PM

I'd say 99% of the products that I have thought about liking and whether they would come back all have and counting...

Or then 99% of the time they haven't, and you selectively remember when they have or remember wrong, possibly coming up with the "memory" post hoc. Memory is anything but reliable. No offence meant, but in unstable individuals such as yourself it's even less reliable. You're likely to remember things in a way that confirms your delusions.

#616548 A message in regard to our current situation

Posted by PerfectFifth on 28 March 2020 - 05:07 PM

O fear the economy may not recover ever again.

Good, maybe that will slow down the insane consumerism. 

#616516 Anyone else have it 24/7

Posted by PerfectFifth on 27 March 2020 - 03:22 PM

24/7 for a decade+.