19 replies to this topic

[James_80]

The point I’m trying to make is that, absent some form of undeniable biomechanism known to be the source of all these various mood / mental states, it feels rather dumb to refer to all of them as “depression” (and if such a mechanism were known to exist, then the disease should probably be named after that mechanism). I think the mental heath community are the ones who are misconceiving the various issues humans may be dealing with. To say that “you can have depression without feeling depressed” is really just bastardizing language, in my view.

I agree with the rest of your post though.

Yeah, I reckon there probably are multiple forms of depression that should be separated as distinct illnesses. I think the word "depression" is the problem here. In common language use it means feeling down/sad but in clinical terms it doesn't mean sad. It means a cluster of symptoms. Hence all the confusion and stigma arises.

[bintuae]

I would think that if you aren’t experiencing sadness, then the issue you are dealing with should not be called “depression”. Semantics, to be sure, but unnecessarily confusing. Especially if you are truly interested in reducing the stigma of “mental illness”. That’s just my view though.

The fact that antidepressants do what you say they do (numb emotions) is not surprising. The idea that a pill can make someone who is unhappy happy is just facially absurd, and would be incredible if it were true. What medication can do is accentuate or numb thoughts and feelings that a person already has.

 

I had thoughts like you when I first I experienced symptoms that are identical to depression (the one that bothers me alot is complete loss of pleasure and interest), except there's no sadness, only anger for silliest of stuff! anyone who just looks at me funny and I'd have thoughts of seriously harming them. I thought depression= sadness. I couldn't relate to people on depression forums as many of them feel sadness and experience crying spells. 

 

My pdocs however, kept diagnosing me with 'major depressive disorder'. They said anger or emotional numbness can be another manifestation of sad and painful feelings (or anxious feelings in the case of anxiety disorder). It doesn't mean that sufferers are trying to intentionally be numb or angry instead of sad as to not appear weak. You just feel them without you doing anything. There are many articles about this.

 

https://www.npr.org/...ay-be-depressed

 

https://psychcentral...our-depression/

 

That said, I do think it should given another name not depression.

[Chip1021]

I had thoughts like you when I first I experienced symptoms that are identical to depression (the one that bothers me alot is complete loss of pleasure and interest), except there's no sadness, only anger for silliest of stuff! anyone who just looks at me funny and I'd have thoughts of seriously harming them. I thought depression= sadness. I couldn't relate to people on depression forums as many of them feel sadness and experience crying spells.

My pdocs however, kept diagnosing me with 'major depressive disorder'. They said anger or emotional numbness can be another manifestation of sad and painful feelings (or anxious feelings in the case of anxiety disorder). It doesn't mean that sufferers are trying to intentionally be numb or angry instead of sad as to not appear weak. You just feel them without you doing anything. There are many articles about this.

https://www.npr.org/...ay-be-depressed

https://psychcentral...our-depression/

That said, I do think it should given another name not depression.

So you think your pdocs know more about how you feel than you do?

[bintuae]

So you think your pdocs know more about how you feel than you do?

 

In some aspects, they don't. but in the case of depression, can you explain why nearly every symptom I have is identical to depression symptoms? Feelings of helplessness and wothlessness, loss of pleasure and motivation, anhedonia, cognitive dysfunction, suicidal and obsessive thoughts, problems with sleep and appetite, slow body movements, lack of energy, apathy, inability to tolerate stress, unexplained aches. What other mental disorders that have the combination of all these? 

[Chip1021]

In some aspects, they don't. but in the case of depression, can you explain why nearly every symptom I have is identical to depression symptoms? Feelings of helplessness and wothlessness, loss of pleasure and motivation, anhedonia, cognitive dysfunction, suicidal and obsessive thoughts, problems with sleep and appetite, slow body movements, lack of energy, apathy, inability to tolerate stress, unexplained aches. What other mental disorders that have the combination of all these?

Sounds like you’ve figured it out yourself. Not sure why your pdoc’s opinion matters then (except that you need him/her to prescribe you drugs, of course).

But just to continue playing devil’s advocate, have you ever looked at a complete list of possible symptoms of depression? It pretty much contains any symptom you could possibly experience. But the feelings of hopelessness and worthlessness are pretty much the defining features of Depression.

[Chip1021]

But my worst symptom (of whatever it is I’m suffering from) is the cognitive dysfunction and confusion. I used to function mostly fine despite lacking interest in hobbies and such. Getting lost trying to find the bathroom in my own house is brutal though.

I feel like I’ve hijacked this thread though, so I apologize for that.

[bintuae]

Sounds like you’ve figured it out yourself. Not sure why your pdoc’s opinion matters then (except that you need him/her to prescribe you drugs, of course).

But just to continue playing devil’s advocate, have you ever looked at a complete list of possible symptoms of depression? It pretty much contains any symptom you could possibly experience. But the feelings of hopelessness and worthlessness are pretty much the defining features of Depression.

 

Do you mean like it can contain experiencing delusions as well? What are those symptoms I listed then? Suicidal thoughts? Slow thinking and movements? Lack of energy? Loss of motivation and interest? Doesn't mean nothing to you? Of course, you don't know the answer yourself, do you? 

 

and btw I'm the most ANTI pdocs and ANTI psychiatric drugs you can ever find. and just so you know I've been fucked by antidepressants, SSRIs to be exact. They made everything worse in the long run. They GAVE me dp/dr and I'm not even able to stop taking them. this is why I continue to go to the damn pdocs. 

 

Also, I do my research not blindly trust pdocs. so when they first shared their claim, it's not like I instantly nodded my head in agreement. So, STOP treating me like one of those blind advocates and assuming things about me that are not true.  

[Chip1021]

Do you mean like it can contain experiencing delusions as well? What are those symptoms I listed then? Suicidal thoughts? Slow thinking and movements? Lack of energy? Loss of motivation and interest? Doesn't mean nothing to you? Of course, you don't know the answer yourself, do you?

and btw I'm the most ANTI pdocs and ANTI psychiatric drugs you can ever find. and just so you know I've been fucked by antidepressants, SSRIs to be exact. They made everything worse in the long run. They GAVE me dp/dr and I'm not even able to stop taking them. this is why I continue to go to the damn pdocs.

Also, I do my research not blindly trust pdocs. so when they first shared their claim, it's not like I instantly nodded my head in agreement. So, STOP treating me like one of those blind advocates and assuming things about me that are not true.

My apologies for offending you. For the record, I wasn’t trying to “get you” or make you feel small. I’m only trying to get people to think about what they mean when they use words like “depression” and “DP”. Our experiences can be complicated, and it’s not simple as just getting a “mental illness” diagnosis and treating it.

I’m sorry about your experience with antidepressants. Many feel the way you do (for the record, I’m not anti-ADs either, just ant-psychiatric propaganda about what they are and what they do).

I probably could have just gotten to my point quicker. I tend to use Socratic techniques when conversing with people and sometimes it pisses people off. My point, or argument, is simply the term “mental illness” and all of its individual components are just classifications of human problems, which on its own is not a bad thing of course. But i had a doctor tell me once they me shitting blood was a symptom of my depression, so it makes me wonder how, for example, psychiatrists know that “fatigue” is a symptom of depression (I.e, caused by the depression) and not that both are the consequence of some yet-to-be-identified condition.

I’m open to continue this conversation elsewhere if you’re interested, but I don’t want to continue turning this thread into something that it wasn’t originally.