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A way to spiritual growth?


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#25 tikobird

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 12:18 PM

Excuse me, but I must differ. I've been doing mindful meditation for many years. I'll call it guided meditation. Your explanation is absolutely correct. Perhaps you misunderstood me. I began doing the mindful living and meditation years ago. I went to a psychologist who was also a Buddhist and he instructed me with explanation and advised me of books to help me. Mindfulness is to be one with yourself and aware of the breath. You may hear all the sounds around you without giving attention to them. When you notice a thought or feeling you just acknowledge it and let it go by. I could give you a list of the CDs and books that have taught me much about it but you're an intelligent person and I'm sure you're aware of them.

Another thing this psychologist helped me with was learning to love myself and be my own parent for matters which I won't go into at this point. I wish you all the best and happiness in all you do. I'm learning more from the current therapist. The next step is EMDR therapy. I learn from others and am becoming more whole each day.



#26 brightmorningstar

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 01:29 PM

Excuse me, but I must differ. I've been doing mindful meditation for many years. I'll call it guided meditation. Your explanation is absolutely correct. Perhaps you misunderstood me. I began doing the mindful living and meditation years ago. I went to a psychologist who was also a Buddhist and he instructed me with explanation and advised me of books to help me. Mindfulness is to be one with yourself and aware of the breath. You may hear all the sounds around you without giving attention to them. When you notice a thought or feeling you just acknowledge it and let it go by. I could give you a list of the CDs and books that have taught me much about it but you're an intelligent person and I'm sure you're aware of them.

Another thing this psychologist helped me with was learning to love myself and be my own parent for matters which I won't go into at this point. I wish you all the best and happiness in all you do. I'm learning more from the current therapist. The next step is EMDR therapy. I learn from others and am becoming more whole each day.

Thank you for your nice comment. I believe Mindfulness requires instructor or a close teacher to guide us, other way it might lead to strange places as it did to me. Playing with your own mind is not something damaged people should do it to themselves like us I believe. I'm really scared to see my thoughts more from the distance since we are already detached people. May I ask why did you quit your buddhist mindfulness therapist? Did you get results by it or? Actually being aware is good but detachment is not that much.... Detachment is disgusting me. Yet Acceptance part is really big stuff. It is the real deal, Self-Love, Acceptance. But if you are unaware you can't use these. It was like that with me. I wasn't aware how I was judging myself constantly and that is so frustrating to notice it after 23 years of living. How was I so aware that I was digging my own hole? Anyways. As a person who has a lot of research about these stuff. My best bet you to try Loving-Kindness meditation, emotions are the ultimate power of the human beings, detachment is the opposite of the attachment, with loosening of attachment, emotions get reduced in its power. And for your DP/DR Loving Kindness(Metta) meditation could create wonders for you. And also a perfect oppurtinity to learning to love yourself more. If I was able to turn to meditation again, I would practice it day and night. It is really quite powerful it might snap out of you from DP/DR with alongside it benefits in long term practice. I think EDMR is quite useful too.



#27 tikobird

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 03:32 PM

I think it works in some ways but isn't helping me totally. I really can't say much more because I've been having rather intense anxiety for a while. I don't know why. The anxiety is gradually turning into a depression. I'm surprised I'm even on here today.

I grew up in an alcoholic home and I grew up a worried child and hated myself. I usually thought I was different from others.

This happens when no one is talking to you even though they are there. I don't mean to be a complainer, I'm just so tired every day. There's my trauma and I hope the EMDR can help me stop disliking myself so I can feel like I belong somewhere.



#28 Sean1997-

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 04:21 PM

I completely agree with what both of you are saying. And in no way, in what I'm going to say disagreeing with you. However, too much meditation can build up too much energy in the body, in which it can't be released. I've experienced this, the brain fog will come up on me if I meditate too much in a particular time frame.

The important thing is balance. Nature, the earth is a thing you ground yourself and neutralise these energies. Meditation is amazing for what it enables one to do, but it needs to be kept at a reasonable rate. I believe non weight bearing exercises (I.e cycling and swimming) can help alleviate that energy and keep you grounded, as well as walking. However, in my experience cycling was the best, I have always lived it too.

So my advice would be to carry on doing the meditation, but don't become dependent on it to escape your feelings. And do productive things also to keep you grounded.

#29 Sean1997-

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 04:31 PM

I practice Metta meditation, it is a great way for you to really see yourself. Sometimes this can bring on negative thoughts but sometimes I believe our mind brings up the opposite of what it wants to do, in that sense with emotional thoughts, because in order to see and be unconditional love. You need to feel nothing, in that moment. Become detached through observation, eventually you'll get to delta brain wave frequency, the same as dreaming . However you are conscious, and it has been recorded that several people, in that moment, released oxytocin from their pituitary glands. They felt pure epiphany and oneness in that moment. Some had no symptoms after their moment for a long period of time, from their illnesses.

It's a great meditation

#30 brightmorningstar

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 04:18 AM

I completely agree with what both of you are saying. And in no way, in what I'm going to say disagreeing with you. However, too much meditation can build up too much energy in the body, in which it can't be released. I've experienced this, the brain fog will come up on me if I meditate too much in a particular time frame.

The important thing is balance. Nature, the earth is a thing you ground yourself and neutralise these energies. Meditation is amazing for what it enables one to do, but it needs to be kept at a reasonable rate. I believe non weight bearing exercises (I.e cycling and swimming) can help alleviate that energy and keep you grounded, as well as walking. However, in my experience cycling was the best, I have always lived it too.

So my advice would be to carry on doing the meditation, but don't become dependent on it to escape your feelings. And do productive things also to keep you grounded.

Hi, where did you get that information about build up energy? Did you notice it yourself? It might be the case with me when I had unexplainable symptoms. Define how much is too much meditation for you to make you get foggy :D



#31 Sean1997-

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 05:13 AM

For example, I would meditate 3 or 4 times a day, whilst being stuck in the house. However, I noticed it only made me less productive because I was using it as an escapism, to try and feel better. I would become frustrated with the meditation because I felt worse after them.

And yes it is from personal experience, as well as research but can't remember the source or where to find what I was looking at. But it's an innate knowing too, if you know what I mean.

My crown chakra became filled with energy and I could feel it pulsating, it raised my bp over time (i had POTS a blood pressure syndrome),and I felt the energy being blocked. If you focus too much of your energy on your head or any region, it'll only unbalance the chakra system.

So being in nature with the 4 elements, whilst meditating. So meditating outside on fields/trees, with incense, water or candles; is a great way to ground that energy.


We are electromagnetic. So in that sense imagine touching a metal open wire, you're gonna be electrocuted because it's too much current at one time. But if you are touching an earth, that electric will be neutralized and spread to that earth- to neutralise your body. However, that energy of electricity is still running through you.

So just like meditation, if there's something to neutralise the raising frequencies, moderately over time your body becomes accustomed to higher energies. Building up tolerance through keeping grounded whilst meditating, offers free flow of energy and can unblock these energies.

A lot of the time I believe a good way to become knowledgeable about something like this is to stop researching things to validate it. But if you experience it, then the evidence is going to have more of an effect because you truly believe it. And this is what searching within is all about.

Be present, in the moment- the observer. Instead of rationalizing feelings based on science or whatever. An innate sense of being is where knowledge is found, research is just memorizing something that you do not connect with as strongly.

However because we are referring to the same context I've came to realise that, we all have tendencies to wish something away because it is uncomfortable. And we search avenues to find a cure/solution. Whereas I believe once you can stop doing that with things that enable you to live in the moment (even just for a second), then that's when your mind, soul and body become aligned to restructuring their energies to alleviate that suffering. And intrinsically that's where you psyche evolves.

So in a sense getting these conditions can be a blessing in disguise because they ask you to completely change your perspective on the world and what is around you. I'm grateful for that,and when a lot of people recover they say the same.

#32 brightmorningstar

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 06:37 AM

For example, I would meditate 3 or 4 times a day, whilst being stuck in the house. However, I noticed it only made me less productive because I was using it as an escapism, to try and feel better. I would become frustrated with the meditation because I felt worse after them.

And yes it is from personal experience, as well as research but can't remember the source or where to find what I was looking at. But it's an innate knowing too, if you know what I mean.

My crown chakra became filled with energy and I could feel it pulsating, it raised my bp over time (i had POTS a blood pressure syndrome),and I felt the energy being blocked. If you focus too much of your energy on your head or any region, it'll only unbalance the chakra system.

So being in nature with the 4 elements, whilst meditating. So meditating outside on fields/trees, with incense, water or candles; is a great way to ground that energy.


We are electromagnetic. So in that sense imagine touching a metal open wire, you're gonna be electrocuted because it's too much current at one time. But if you are touching an earth, that electric will be neutralized and spread to that earth- to neutralise your body. However, that energy of electricity is still running through you.

So just like meditation, if there's something to neutralise the raising frequencies, moderately over time your body becomes accustomed to higher energies. Building up tolerance through keeping grounded whilst meditating, offers free flow of energy and can unblock these energies.

A lot of the time I believe a good way to become knowledgeable about something like this is to stop researching things to validate it. But if you experience it, then the evidence is going to have more of an effect because you truly believe it. And this is what searching within is all about.

Be present, in the moment- the observer. Instead of rationalizing feelings based on science or whatever. An innate sense of being is where knowledge is found, research is just memorizing something that you do not connect with as strongly.

However because we are referring to the same context I've came to realise that, we all have tendencies to wish something away because it is uncomfortable. And we search avenues to find a cure/solution. Whereas I believe once you can stop doing that with things that enable you to live in the moment (even just for a second), then that's when your mind, soul and body become aligned to restructuring their energies to alleviate that suffering. And intrinsically that's where you psyche evolves.

So in a sense getting these conditions can be a blessing in disguise because they ask you to completely change your perspective on the world and what is around you. I'm grateful for that,and when a lot of people recover they say the same.

I think one bad side of meditations is this. Too much energy getting stuck in the body and it manifest itself in variety of ways. And eventually stuck energy fucks up with your chakras. As it did to me. Whenever I do meditate, as you said that is innate knowledge, I just wanted to ask you without giving any info, and you seem to tell everything that happened to me, and almost the same, after I meditate and if I stay home etc. my crown chakra or third eye vibrates and makes an energy loop there and it makes me unable to think clearly etc. And after if you don't ground that energy for a while it fucks up with your chakra and you become ungrounded as fuck for days and your root/down body chakras lose their balance and become low powering. I lost my sexual proweness because of it for this 1-2 month. My third eye and crown become so active and it created even some mental difficulties, like I started to become afraid of if I'm gonna have awakening or the energies moving up there started to lose my logical thinking and made me go into freak mode, I started to couldn't sleep at night because of it. Now, I know you love meditation, spirituality, grounding, nature etc. But for me, from my own personal view, and from my researchs and thinkings, detachment and observer is not for househoulders, I mean this practice of meditation and these philosophies aren't created for people like us, I'm not saying people shouldn't practice it, but this meditation only 1 piece of a whole work, there must be many things to done to balance it. That is why I hate meditation after this. No one warns or there is no information about the reality of this. After 2 years of meditating and fucking up my energetic body and imbalancing my chakras and numbing my emotional system I've come to learn it and no one told me. You see, I've embarked this journey to get back my lost feelings but here it is I'm more broken than before. People talk it like a miracle of spirituality about meditation. It is a tool but it is a dangerous and risky tool and it should be done with a guided teacher. And being the Observer is the full of shit. After you cross the line you will see what I'm talking about. It is not all serenity or calmness. There is a Dark Night coming for you let me tell you this. I think this practice should be adviced with a big caution. But in the opposite, it is adviced as, OH YOU CAN'T DO IT WRONG, JUST BREATHE. Well these stupid fucks don't know anything at all and mostly they are low in IQ and don't know any other phrases except telling people to "BE THE OBSERVER", "RETURN TO THE BREATH", "THERE IS NO BAD MEDITATION". They are just doing spiritual bypassing and feeling good and feeding their big egos and thinking that they are better than non-meditators and they get their sense of strength there. And when there is a thought of provoking them to feel negative, or feeling an urge to get on the work. They say oh this is just a thought and go on log in on reddit and tell how the west is fucking material and illisuionary world. Sorry I don't eat this crap. %90 alone meditators are doing spiritual bypassing that is all I can say and know.



#33 Sean1997-

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 09:11 AM

Thank you for the first part of that comment, and I agree with some of the things you have said like meditation is a dangerous tool. As I have said I have reduced my meditation drastically, I hardly ever do it unless my body brings me there without conscious thought.

However, the second part I believe is open to interpretation. Being the observer has nothing to do with just meditation. It comes to life: being open minded, letting go of grudges,grievances, past traumas. And getting rid of those has more to do with just living in the moment expecting the answers to come to you rather than you searching from them through meditation.

Being the observer is the most complete form a human can be, in my opinion. It enables you to be attached to nothing that brings you stress in our every day life, accepting other people have other opinions, and although you may think you are right, you know another human is having a different experience. They perceive the world differently therefore, their opinion is just as right as yours, if they feel as strongly towards it as you do. This condition makes you do that and all these negative emotions are absorbing your productive energies, which is why it feels uncomfortable, because this condition makes you feel all these emotions all the time.

Therefore, being the observer is the solution of this in a sense. Just observing that those feelings are there but having the perseverance to let them be there, rather than trying to escape.

This is my opinion, if you disagree that's fine, although it's okay for you to have a different thought I respect that :)

#34 brightmorningstar

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 12:21 PM

Thank you for the first part of that comment, and I agree with some of the things you have said like meditation is a dangerous tool. As I have said I have reduced my meditation drastically, I hardly ever do it unless my body brings me there without conscious thought.

However, the second part I believe is open to interpretation. Being the observer has nothing to do with just meditation. It comes to life: being open minded, letting go of grudges,grievances, past traumas. And getting rid of those has more to do with just living in the moment expecting the answers to come to you rather than you searching from them through meditation.

Being the observer is the most complete form a human can be, in my opinion. It enables you to be attached to nothing that brings you stress in our every day life, accepting other people have other opinions, and although you may think you are right, you know another human is having a different experience. They perceive the world differently therefore, their opinion is just as right as yours, if they feel as strongly towards it as you do. This condition makes you do that and all these negative emotions are absorbing your productive energies, which is why it feels uncomfortable, because this condition makes you feel all these emotions all the time.

Therefore, being the observer is the solution of this in a sense. Just observing that those feelings are there but having the perseverance to let them be there, rather than trying to escape.

This is my opinion, if you disagree that's fine, although it's okay for you to have a different thought I respect that smile.png

Hey man you're really greatly developed and a great intellectual person for your age much luck to you on your own journey. What are the things you did to flush out the excessive energy that created by meditation in your body? I'm mostly at home trying to study Spanish and other stuff, so I'm at home all the time, should I go to the coast and take walk everyday to flush it? It gets reducing everyday, I mean the tinglings and pressure is going off, but at nights its getting a spike and making me mentally afraid of something. U got any ideas?



#35 tikobird

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 07:02 PM

I understand what you're saying. I learned a lot fro the above video. I agree that the replacement of our ego which was formed long ago can be reinvented by gradually replacing self hatred with the positive aspects we own.  When you speak about mindfulness the idea is that you're gradually getting rid of the created self of childhood. I grew up with parents who were there but in the midst of alcoholism and other family dysfunctions they rarely spoke to me. This created the time to assume I didn't belong and there was something inherently wrong with me. I used to think if people would tell me what I'm doing wrong I'd correct it. The way I hated myself was very deep. I was born into this.

There's no blame to put on my parents. My father's family had alcoholism for generations. After he stopped drinking he continued to know much about loving children. I forgive him because alcoholism is not a fault of his. My mother was rather quiet and afraid to say much. So one night after a dance and ruminating about why my close friends were teasing me the only thing in my mind was "what's wrong with me", and if only they'd tell me so I could change. I must work on myself and am finding the way.

As you've said mindful meditation and finding love does work better with guidance and having the proper instruction. 



#36 brightmorningstar

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 02:19 AM

I understand what you're saying. I learned a lot fro the above video. I agree that the replacement of our ego which was formed long ago can be reinvented by gradually replacing self hatred with the positive aspects we own.  When you speak about mindfulness the idea is that you're gradually getting rid of the created self of childhood. I grew up with parents who were there but in the midst of alcoholism and other family dysfunctions they rarely spoke to me. This created the time to assume I didn't belong and there was something inherently wrong with me. I used to think if people would tell me what I'm doing wrong I'd correct it. The way I hated myself was very deep. I was born into this.

There's no blame to put on my parents. My father's family had alcoholism for generations. After he stopped drinking he continued to know much about loving children. I forgive him because alcoholism is not a fault of his. My mother was rather quiet and afraid to say much. So one night after a dance and ruminating about why my close friends were teasing me the only thing in my mind was "what's wrong with me", and if only they'd tell me so I could change. I must work on myself and am finding the way.

As you've said mindful meditation and finding love does work better with guidance and having the proper instruction. 

I'm in the same boat as you, I have C-PTSD a.k.a severe childhood trauma, I've always been told by my own parents that I have no soul and I was a lazy son of a bitch and always thinking if I'm gonna make a mistake that gonna anger someone or when I speak or do something if I'm gonna make someone angry because mom and dad was getting angry at everything and never let me show my emotions, so I become emotionless, buried emotions for most of my life. I get you, forgiveness is really easens the burden, I say I forgive them too myself, because they also got traumatized by their parents and this goes on generation to generation, however I also believe there is always a choice and from their intellect (My father was a really successful doctor surgeon) and with that mind capacity if you act like a psychopath then you choosed what you've done. I totally get you severe trauma and neglect is destroys lives there is nothing almost more severe than this except physical/sexual abuse. I've literally spend my whole life in agony/severe self-hatred/ severe hatred towards people and severe paranoia if people are thinking ill about me or gonna go mad to me. Literally was never be able to love someone in my life because of this patterns. Yes mindfulness is actually a way out for a traumatic person but there is always something to pay you know, I mean I literally feel I've reduced my old self and built new pathways, however I also believe that these effects might be just gone after leaving meditating because your ego integrates again, or if you continue meditating you essentially come to a phase of dissolving which it can easily come to a traumatic person because you already don't like yourself and you wish to delete that persona deep down, I know you know what I'm talking about :) So then there is Dark Night of The Soul or Ego Death possibilities, which might lead you to your own salvation at the end if you take the path, yet I was too scared to go into it since I have no teacher nor guidance, but I've seen the glimpse of  what it could be, and I've seen most of my life from a distance and how I created my Ego to battle the trauma and built that unnecessary and unhelpful persona that I've lived my life, and there comes a phase to let go of it and your whole attachments that you hold, but I choosed not to, maybe you would and maybe another person would too, but I didn't think I really wanted it. Because deep down I think the damage we got also could be turned into a source of great power and a beacon of guidance in the path of life. No one outside has seen so much pain and agony believe me their only pain is their girlfriend is leaving them mostly, or payment or bills. Even if you have $100k debt and you work for 5 years to pay it that is no where close to a lived life in hell. Sorry I did ramble a lot but I've decided to not live my life like this. So I've embarked on journey to self-heal but I didn't know what was the issue and it was caused by trauma till this year. So I've always blamed myself for being like this, a weakling, a cursed man. I've embarked on meditation as a self help too I had many dreams most of them were evolved around getting my full emotions back. So after this meditation 1.5 journey, which was so crazy, because I've experienced these detachment, dissociation, depersonalization, derealization and  supression of my inner voice, but besides all these negative things, I think I've come to see how mind really works and I've come to see where I was doing wrong to make myself unhappy and keeping myself in traumatized life again and again, I mean I took a lot of lessons that no one could give it to me, I only really know that I can control my mind and my emotions, which I always thought I was a cursed slave and I couldn't do anything to change that before and I always hoped for a magic pill or rejected any opinions about you can change yourself. I think everything valuable comes with a price so it was 1.5 year self journey into the self for me.  If you watch this video, I totally agree with this guy. After seeing many things, this is really true what he says.






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