24 replies to this topic

[eddy1886]

I dont know if im being paranoid but she has basically requoted nearly every post ive put up on here in the last 10 years or so LOL...

 

Free study LOL

 

I will send you the bill over the next few days Dr Hunter...

 

LMAO!!!

[eddy1886]

Of course there is the preverbial "New book" plug LOL

[eddy1886]

CBT is like communism...

 

Great in theory but fails in practice...

[TDX]

 

CBT is like communism...

 

Great in theory but fails in practice...

 

True in several areas, but also an overstatement. There are literally hundreds of psychotherapy techniques and CBT is one the few that has proven to be useful for least some problems. But except for maybe a minority, I doubt that it's the silver bullet against depersonalization disorder.

 

 

I dont know if im being paranoid but she has basically requoted nearly every post ive put up on here in the last 10 years or so LOL...

 

Free study LOL

 

I will send you the bill over the next few days Dr Hunter...

 

Sometimes I asked myself, if doctors who specialized on one problem really read in the discussion groups of patients. I cannot answer this question, but from my years of experience in reading several patient forums I know that they rarely post there.

[eddy1886]

CBT is like communism...

 

Great in theory but fails in practice...

EDIT!!!

 

As regards Depersonalization Disorder

 

You cant talk your way out of DP and you certainly cant put CBT into practise with it because it wreaks havoc with cognitive abilities in the first place and secondly because the thinking patterns that go along with chronic DP are too obsessive to break down...Grounding techniques, Automatic Negative Thought Assessment etc etc etc does nothing to break DPs incessant grip of constant terror....

 

If your lucky enough to have lots of money and apply CBT regularly in a stress free environment maybe it might work...But for most of us who have to work regularly or have children and wives and bills to pay this simply isnt practical....

 

How many of us on here have tried to hold up a job amongst other everyday responsibilities whilst sick with chronic DP....Its not possible....Try throw CBT practices in on top of all that 50 times a day???? See where im going with this????

[Broken]

CBT seems to simple a therapy for me. The type of therapy I am arguing is by a well trained psychologist for years. Nobody has access to that.

Back to the whole functional/structural argument. Functional changes aren't controlled by us but they are a defence mechanism that can be reversed I believe. The issue is resolving the underlying fears and beliefs, something so bad that it sticks you in a form of the 'freeze response'. My experience is I don't fight and stick up for myself. I also don't flight and run away from the situation.

For some reason (deep down psychologically) I freeze, or leave myself in that situation ie bullying and even to this day I have 'friends' that are arse holes and make shitty comments, but I don't stick up for myself or remove them from my life, I stay. It is a reflection of my low self esteem or self worth. I don't think I am worth protecting in a sense.

So I still GET the emotional fight or flight response but I don't EXPRESS that socially that causes me to shut down. I have it 24/7 which might mean that has happened continuously over time to cause it to be over active.

I'm open minded to meds reversing this, but I haven't found any. So rather than giving up I am choosing to believe that working on my self through exploring the past and going through how things could have been done differently to get better results.

[Broken]

Most specialists are the same, & tend to fall into the same faulty reasoning, i.e.
 
 
I specialize in X,
& my patients suffer with Y,
therefore X must be the only cure for Y.
 
 
Throw in an unhealthy dose of confirmation bias, & hey presto.

Lol yeh. "I haven't heard of depersonalization disorder so it can't be that". My last GP even put depersonalization 'syndrome' down as my diagnosis. I don't think he actually believed in my condition

[eddy1886]

What I meant was this:

 

 

I specialize in Psychotherapy,

my patients suffer from Depersonalization,

therefore Psychotherapy is the only cure for Depersonalization.

 

 

It's the same with other specialists too;

 

 

I specialize in Psychiatry,

my patients suffer from Depersonalization,

therefore medication is the only cure for Depersonalization.

 

I specialize in Homeopathy,

my patients suffer from Depersonalization,

therefore herbal remedies are the only cure for Depersonalization.

 

 

It's the nature of the false reasoning I was drawing attention to (many people who post recovery stories on here fall foul of similar erroneous thinking as well).

Mainly so ya keep going back......

 

To line their pockets

[Broken]

Yeh I was just illustrating how an individual's biases can affect their diagnosis as well as their treatment. Some genuinely do have a god complex. They think they must have the answer because they had so much training. When sometimes they simply don't. And then they wamt to be the hero (although financial reasons most probably influence this as well).

So they are convinced their specific training is the answer to this and they can save the victim (whilst being rewarded rather handsomely financially). People truly beleve involving money doesn't influence the practitioners decisions and biases. Human beings are not objective in nature. You may not consciously think the money affects you, but you unconsciously know that money is important and self preservation is the primary objective

So I am sure many are convinced they are good people helping others. But if they were truly honest and reflected on their experience/abilities, they are clueless. 'I don't know' would be their honest answer about DPD. Except they're not aloud to say that now are they. 'I don't know' should probably be the first chapter in any medical textbook lol

[eddy1886]

Yeh I was just illustrating how an individual's biases can affect their diagnosis as well as their treatment. Some genuinely do have a god complex. They think they must have the answer because they had so much training. When sometimes they simply don't. And then they wamt to be the hero (although financial reasons most probably influence this as well).

So they are convinced their specific training is the answer to this and they can save the victim (whilst being rewarded rather handsomely financially). People truly beleve involving money doesn't influence the practitioners decisions and biases. Human beings are not objective in nature. You may not consciously think the money affects you, but you unconsciously know that money is important and self preservation is the primary objective

So I am sure many are convinced they are good people helping others. But if they were truly honest and reflected on their experience/abilities, they are clueless. 'I don't know' would be their honest answer about DPD. Except they're not aloud to say that now are they. 'I don't know' should probably be the first chapter in any medical textbook lol

Therapist once told me....

 

"I spent alot of time training for this so Im entitled to charge 100 euros an hour for therapy sessions" .....This person worked in a suicide prevention place....Scarey!!!

 

Another therpaist in the same place told me she was......"Empowering me to get better" .........Even scarier LOL

[eddy1886]

I have nothing against therapists charging people for their services.....But it becomes legalized extortion when they actually know deep down they cannot help you but keep you coming back again and again.....

 

Just proves how many of them are chancers and fraudsters only in it for the money....

 

Integrity my ass!!!

[TDX]

There is another aspect in the whole discussion, that you have hinted: Cost-efficency. Let's say a session psychotherapy costs 100€. According to his book Michal wants to put all patients with depersonalization disorder through longterm psychotherapy consisting of "at least 50 to 120 psychotherapy sessions over a timeframe of one to three years" (page 91). This would be an amount of 5000€ to 12000€. Not to mention that he said "at least", so he wouldn't disagree to even more sessions.

 

Let's compare this to drugs: A tablet of 200 mg Lamotrigine costs about 1.5€, which means if you need to take 400 mg/day to obtain relief from your symptoms, your treatment costs about 3€ per day. You would have to use this treatment for 4.6 to 11.0 years to exceed the costs of longterm psychotherapy. If you only needed 200 mg/day it would be 9.2 to 22.0 years.

 

The high costs of his proposed longterm psychotherapy treatment would only be justified if he could demonstrate that it does not only have efficacy, but solves the patient's problems for good, hence after completing all sessions the patient is cured. But he never came up with something like that, while there is some evidence for Lamotrigine being effective for at least some people.

 

Even for the ones where it doesn't provide relief, it doesn't eat much cash, because then it is just discontinued following some months of treatment. In contrast in the german forum there are numerous people who had years of psychotherapy, which was in most cases for nothing. Seems like you have to run through all the sessions to "find out" if it can work or not (usually insurance cuts off the money supply).

 

In my opinion for depersonalization disorder psychotherapy is no "treatment of choice", like Michal says, but a very expensive off-label treatment without much evidence supporting it. I would say almost all drug treatments should be preferred to it, because they are much more likely to work, the non-response much easier to detect and thus much more cost efficient.