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Saw a DP/DR specialist today


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#25 *Dreamer*

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 12:41 PM

I'm just talking from my experience. Dp/dr is a different type of phenomenon, in my opinion, that doesn't necessarily fit well with how medical field treats illnesses. Why is that? Because it's something that is so unknown to most people and the medical field, we don't know how to treat it effectively. It's not a condition with, like schizophrenia with manifest symptoms that express themselves and which can be objectively successfully treated (like hallucinations etc).

Don't get me started on cancer. Do you homework, many patients don't even respond to chemotherapy. Chemo works very well with some cancers but not with others. When looking to advance, you have to look at the bigger picture, and that's what is happening now with injections of the HIV virus which has been a successful treatment so far, but like everything is being halted by the FDA so it won't be widely available for at least two years while thousands will die in that span. My little sister passed away from cancer. Oncologists never know all of he answers and they always toe the line between half a politician and half a doctor. That's not to discredit the work they do, but I am simply raising the point that sometimes we need to look somewhere else for answers or treatment.

Dude, you calling me a kook for expressing a different opinion than yours is not necessary. I agree, maybe some of these treatments help people out. But personally I've experienced what 100% recovery feels like and it doesn't just have to be about making you comfortable. To find permanent relief let's be more ambitious than that.

Well, I think we're all still missing the point here.
1.  Don't get ME started on cancer ... I am a four year and 7 month survivor of breast cancer.  My aunt died of breast cancer in 1974. 
In 2010 when I got breast cancer there were SO many more advanced diagnostic tools, chemotherapy, surgical procedures ... I am far from alone in surviving cancer treatment.
And no doctor will EVER tell me I am "cured" -- I am "in remission."  In 1974, my aunt had about 2 choices for chemotherapy.  Nowadays they tailor it to your type of cancer, gender, weight, age, etc.
I have many friends (because I am older) who are cancer survivors.
And also, NO ONE forced me to do anything.  I could have refused surgery, chemo, everything.  I did not have reconstruction (which is not a "boob job") as I did not want to spend another 2 years healing from that.

Shame on you for your ignorance about cancer.


2.  I have said 5 billion times, DP/DR IS known to good psychiatrists and to neurologists.  DP/DR can be created in someone using electrical stimulation during brain surgery when one must stay awake.

DP/DR occurs in migraine, epilsepsy, stroke, severe head trauma, taking certain antibiotics, taking other types of medications.  We also know here that it can be triggered by Rec Drugs.

3.  Because something is not fully understood does NOT mean that in the future there will be no cure, but the brain is so complex and difficult to analyze it is the most difficult to treat.   And as I always say, AIDS has been around a long time ... there is no vaccine, but there is a vast improvement in terms of medical treatment that extends lives for decades.  In the 1970s and 1980s that was a death sentence.

NO psychiatric disorder is the same for anyone.  We are all individuals.  Treatments of all kinds can be beneficial.  Also rejecting treatment is an option.  Many seriously ill individuals of all types do not respond to treatment at all and are disabled for life.  Others respond very well to various forms of treatment.

Oh, re: my cancer.  In 2004 ... only 6 years before my cancer diagnosis ..a new genetic test was developed.  The oncotype.  My tumor was sent to a lab and its genetic components were analyzed.  That helped reveal the TYPE of cancer and what meds would best treat it.  Meds could be targeted specifically for that cancer.

Please don't talk about what you don't know.  And please understand that ALL of us have a different experience and a different way to recovery.

Also, I see a therapist more than a psychiatrist.  I could refuse all of my psychiatric medication.  The cost for a visit without insurnace is $400 which many people can't afford.  The price for psychoanalysis is not even covered on insurance and said doctors charge ridicuous prices for treatment.  I would guess that Colin Ross charges $400 a session. 

Also, I read further about Colin Roas.  He does publish for the American Psychiatric Association journal and is now researching anti-psycotic medication.

There are also a ton of reputable personal stories out there to read.  And again, some are success stories, others not, and that would be true for EVERY illness there is.

This argument is ridiculous.


Edited by *Dreamer*, 26 March 2015 - 12:48 PM.


#26 *Dreamer*

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 12:42 PM

Every single person here should exhchange information without bashing someone else.  We all find our own way.



#27 *Dreamer*

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 12:43 PM

I wasn't going to reply to you but your calm and considered response made me rethink so thanks for that. I'm sorry for the kook comment.

 


 

Regarding your first paragraph, I would argue that none of it matters. If someone takes a medication and sees some subjective improvement, I would happily declare that a success. Are you aware of the very promising research into opiate receptor antagonists etc.? I think we are reaching a turning point where the psychiatric institution will start to be able to treat DP effectively in a large percentage of people. Having said that, none of it is a replacement for working on the psychological components of DP.

 

Peace.

And this makes sense.  Also, no one said that therapy is useless, but it is not known to help in many cases.  Medication doesn't help in many cases.  Take a holistic path and say what works.


Edited by *Dreamer*, 26 March 2015 - 12:45 PM.


#28 Freddy_Fred

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 02:47 PM

It was not my intention to spark up such a heated debate with my post. The extreme depression and dark thoughts are a result of the changes DP has caused in my life. Obviously. I still don't understand how, from one moment to the next, I lost my sense of self and DP completely changed my perception on the things I once loved and enjoyed. I don't get how thinking about violence and crude humor completely makes me shut down and cry. I don't get why I feel mentally and physically feeble to the point of being bed bound. Again, all this happened within minutes three months ago and it hasn't stopped. 

 

Sorry for the complaining, but all of these symptoms and unanswered questions have been hard to deal with . Anyone who knows me would say I was a stand up guy before this happened. I'm sure the 50mg of Zoloft won't make DP go away, but if it can make the dark, horrible thoughts go away, I might consider it. This is coming from a alcohol and drug free, not even take an aspirin type of guy.



#29 jvh18

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 02:59 PM

Every single person here should exhchange information without bashing someone else.  We all find our own way.

Look, I COMPLETELY agree with you. If I came across as being aggressive its just because I'm passionate.

 

But you said this right after calling me ignorant and discrediting my own experience with cancer in my family...

 

You also criticize my arguments. I wasn't aware that this is an argument where one person will win and the other will lose, although you frame it as so. I am expressing my opinions because they are what I believe, I'm not trying to prop up a certain view point or win anything; this is just how I see the world. I agree we all find our own way, but this forum is a great tool because we do have something big in common. Its something that unifies all of us. 
 

Well, I think we're all still missing the point here.
1.  Don't get ME started on cancer ... I am a four year and 7 month survivor of breast cancer.  My aunt died of breast cancer in 1974. 
In 2010 when I got breast cancer there were SO many more advanced diagnostic tools, chemotherapy, surgical procedures ... I am far from alone in surviving cancer treatment.
And no doctor will EVER tell me I am "cured" -- I am "in remission."  In 1974, my aunt had about 2 choices for chemotherapy.  Nowadays they tailor it to your type of cancer, gender, weight, age, etc.
I have many friends (because I am older) who are cancer survivors.
And also, NO ONE forced me to do anything.  I could have refused surgery, chemo, everything.  I did not have reconstruction (which is not a "boob job") as I did not want to spend another 2 years healing from that.

Shame on you for your ignorance about cancer.


2.  I have said 5 billion times, DP/DR IS known to good psychiatrists and to neurologists.  DP/DR can be created in someone using electrical stimulation during brain surgery when one must stay awake.

DP/DR occurs in migraine, epilsepsy, stroke, severe head trauma, taking certain antibiotics, taking other types of medications.  We also know here that it can be triggered by Rec Drugs.

3.  Because something is not fully understood does NOT mean that in the future there will be no cure, but the brain is so complex and difficult to analyze it is the most difficult to treat.   And as I always say, AIDS has been around a long time ... there is no vaccine, but there is a vast improvement in terms of medical treatment that extends lives for decades.  In the 1970s and 1980s that was a death sentence.

NO psychiatric disorder is the same for anyone.  We are all individuals.  Treatments of all kinds can be beneficial.  Also rejecting treatment is an option.  Many seriously ill individuals of all types do not respond to treatment at all and are disabled for life.  Others respond very well to various forms of treatment.

Oh, re: my cancer.  In 2004 ... only 6 years before my cancer diagnosis ..a new genetic test was developed.  The oncotype.  My tumor was sent to a lab and its genetic components were analyzed.  That helped reveal the TYPE of cancer and what meds would best treat it.  Meds could be targeted specifically for that cancer.

Please don't talk about what you don't know.  And please understand that ALL of us have a different experience and a different way to recovery.

Also, I see a therapist more than a psychiatrist.  I could refuse all of my psychiatric medication.  The cost for a visit without insurnace is $400 which many people can't afford.  The price for psychoanalysis is not even covered on insurance and said doctors charge ridicuous prices for treatment.  I would guess that Colin Ross charges $400 a session. 

Also, I read further about Colin Roas.  He does publish for the American Psychiatric Association journal and is now researching anti-psycotic medication.

There are also a ton of reputable personal stories out there to read.  And again, some are success stories, others not, and that would be true for EVERY illness there is.

This argument is ridiculous.

Dealing with childhood cancer in my family and having it dominate 3 years of my life made me pretty informed, actually.  But it is still just my experience and fully accept I do not know everything. But I know some things because I'm fairly intelligent and I have first hand experience in my life. I know it seems that I made generalizations in my post but you've all gotta stop taking everything so literally. I was just using it to make a point, because of course traditional cancer treatment works for many people. 

 

I commend you for the courage and have the utmost of respect for you for dealing with cancer alongside mental health stuff, which I'm sure was very very hard.  All I can speak about is a rare form of childhood bone  cancer called osteo-sarcoma that effected my sister. Since you have much experience with cancer, you know that every cancer is very very different in how it is treated and with the success rate of drugs. What happened to my sister was she was treated with 4-5 different regiments of chemo with no effectiveness as they ravaged her body, they weren't effective in killing cancer cells. Oncologists have different regiments of chemo programs; if one doesn't work they go the next one. 

 

Chemotherapy works for many many people and I never said I think it's horrible, but for some cancers it does not work. And even so it is the only treatment option available so people still use it, and of course there is the chance that it will still work. Maybe its left me bitter but I guess this is getting off topic. 
 
My argument is simply to use cancer and other diseases to show sometimes doctors do not have the answers all the time. They are fallible people. You guys took my words too literally.  I think it's still important to do research studies, but, doesn't poring over research material about DP/DR and trying to get at the root of what it is SOMETIMES make things worse? I fully believe people that completely identify with something like DP/DR CAN (not saying always) make it worse on themselves, because you start to make excuses about the position you're in. We all like to latch on to disorders or things wrong with us because it is likely true, but sometimes thinking of them as concrete illnesses (because the DSM said so) is counterproductive. All I'm saying is that if I tell myself I'm depressed, I tell myself I have Dp/Dr and research studies have said there is no known cure yet, that this language doesn't make ME feel any better. Everyone reacts to this differently, but that's my personal view on what helps me cope at the moment. 

 

The fact is that Dp/Dr isn't cancer or aids. Very very far from it. And I feel like you should know this. While it has messed up so much in my life, it won't kill you. In my opinion, its a little dangerous clumping them together..  



#30 TDX

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 03:52 PM

The price for psychoanalysis is not even covered on insurance and said doctors charge ridicuous prices for treatment.

I can understand this, because psychoanalysis is pseudo-scientific and there is inconclusive evidence for it's efficacy.

I think you'll be surprised just how many people will be helped by medication once selective kappa opiate receptor antagonists

We will see, because next year ALKS-5461 might become availabe.

#31 Guest_Zed_*

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 04:20 PM

I can understand this, because psychoanalysis is pseudo-scientific and there is inconclusive evidence for it's efficacy.
 

 

 

Yeah right.. psychoanalysis is pseudo science. 

 

The benefits of eating organic food - pseudo science

The benefits of drinking clean water - pseudo science

Chinese medicine - pseudo science

Homeopathic medicine - pseudo science

Herbal medicine - pseudo science

Meditation - pseudo science

Osteopathy - pseudo science

Intuition - pseudo science

and the list goes on and on….

 

What you fail to recognise is millions of people throughout the world benefit from 'pseudo science' everyday. How can you possibly discount something b/c science hasn't yet gotten around to proving the efficacy of different treatments used worldwide for sometimes centuries? How arrogant. 

 

Open you eyes. You've been fed lies. 



#32 Guest_stvcy_*

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 05:51 PM

I hope you are feeling better today than you have. I had DP/DR for several years and I have been free of this mental monster for just as long. And if it makes you feel any better- I did it all without any medications. It will probably never get worse than how you are feeling right now. You will have your good days, your bad days, and your really really bad days...but you will remain the same, strong person throughout it all. When that day finally comes and you realize you are no longer suffering from DP or DR, you will find that nothing about you has changed- at least not the good things! I was always a fun, outgoing and humorous person. The DP/DR took a toll on the best parts of my personality when it came about. My biggest fear was that, even if I overcome this, my life would never be the same. UNTRUE! If anything, I am happier now than I have ever been before. And yes, all without meds. You don't need em! If you'd like you can read my older post about how I was able to overcome DP/DR...lots of little tips and advice you can use here and there that will ultimately help you...even just a little bit...sometimes even a brief break from this can give you the hope and strength you need to carry on. Please do not think you are alone in this, and please do not for a second think that without SSRIs you cannot overcome this. Because you can, and you will. Much hope, encouragement, and love to you xoxo



#33 *Dreamer*

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 06:04 PM

JVH18, Very sorry.  I read a portion of what you had written higher up the thread (quoted by someone else).  I'm very sorry about your sister -- I didn't even see that.  EDIT: I also know that some cancers are very agressive.  My friend's husband died 2 years ago from cancer at age 52 ... some strange cancer that was known to have a very poor outcome.  It was also difficult to diagnose.  He did everything to stay alive for his family.  Even experimental trials. 

I don't know how, but he lived 3 more years when they thought he would live 3 months.
Cancer in children is so sad and so terrible.

It is also a passionate topic for me. 

But I don't like extremes in either direction.  I believe in a holistic approach, full well knowing that not everyone has the same outcome with ANY illness.
And if anything I prefer researchers to doctors ... they are two different groups of people.  There is a huge effort in research of all kinds.  And believe me, I don't believe in every researcher and have fired plenty of doctors -- all kinds.
 

I also don't "worship" the pharmaceutical companies ...

Well, bottom line, I have had a lot of physical and emotional problems in my life.  Because of medicine I am indeed still alive.  I could swear to you that a psychiatric medicine -- Klonopin -- AND THAT IS ONLY IN MY CASE -- kept me from suicide.  And in my case, proper screening and treatment has kept me alive after a cancer diagnosis.

Even with being ecouraged by my doctors about the cancer none of them can say I won't get it again in the future -- even a different type.  I simply have to live with that.  Life is not fair.  Humans are fallible.  There ARE good professionals and bad in every profession in this world.

I use medication, excercise, diet, sleep, yoga, music, therapy, group therapy, volunteering, writing, taking classes, art ... I use all of these things to have a higher quality of life. I don't depend on any one thing.  And I mainly have to live in the present.  You don't know what will happen in the future.  No one does.

I have to have a degree of faith as well as a degree of skepticism in any topic.

Also, Freddy, this is not your fault at all. These wild discussions do get out of hand.  Sometimes I can't leave them alone.

I only wish that all of us have good lives and that one day none of have DP or any other condition that is so frightening and painful.
And I have knee jerk reactions here.  I'm sorry.

Too tired to go on with this discussion!
 


Edited by *Dreamer*, 26 March 2015 - 06:18 PM.


#34 jvh18

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 06:28 PM

@dreamer

Thanks for the reply! Think I've just been having a rough day and kind of on an anti-corporate bend as of late which has made me agitated at big pharma/corporations/politicians and everything else haha. Even knowing dp won't kill you it still may be the most frustrating thing in the world, especially when you just get if because we all want answers and to get our lives back right away. The lack of straight forward answers and the confusing conflicting theories are just plain frustrating, because if you want to get better it's almost like, where do you turn as some theories to recover even contradict themselves.

I agree that even meds won't cure anything alone and meds along with the proper mindset along with relaxation exercise etc. is necessary.

Also sorry to op for derailing this thread but I think it just strikes a chord with many people because we can relate with wanting to find the best avenue to "recover".

#35 Guest_Zed_*

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Posted 01 May 2015 - 08:10 PM

You do realise that homeopathy is labelled psuedo-scientific because double-blind placebo-controlled studies have repeatedly shown homeopathic "medicine" to be utterly worthless, right?

 

The benefits of meditiation, on the other hand, actually are backed up by evidence so it doesn't deserve the label.

 

You don't appear to have done any research before posting this. I suppose that's consistent with your general approach to novel ideas though.

 

Read this and then shut up with your nonsense please.  

 

http://www.homeopath...HA_to_NHMRC.pdf






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