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Saw a DP/DR specialist today


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#13 Guest_Zed_*

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 06:01 PM


 
I'd much rather take his word on psych medication than some pseudo intellectual. He's got the facts and decades of experience in the field. He's done a lot of work in the field of dissociation as well. 
 
If it's a case of his word against yours? Well, I know where I'm turning. 
 
You've got a lot to learn about this world my friend.

#14 Guest_Zed_*

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 07:00 PM

So what've we got.. studies where certain drugs MAY indicate improvements. Research using 11 patients, 7 patients, 32 patients, handful here, handful there… Hmm??

 

There're so many variabilities in peoples everyday dissociation levels which can't be taken into account during the studies. So many different things can trigger patients from one day to the next which aren't taken into account. Basically this research is kinda useless. It's been going on for decades and they're still at square one by the looks. Lets not mention the fact that research can be easily skewed to give the results they want. As Colin Ross said also "and we don't even get to see the studies that show where the research is inconclusive." 

 

Don't bother with getting me the complete research documents. I wouldn't waste my time reading them anyway. It's all too inconclusive and uncertain. I wouldn't put too much faith in where the scientists are up to presently. 



#15 *Dreamer*

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 07:05 PM

Zed,

The real terrifying bit is Colin Ross is again someone I knew in the 1980s.  He was a President and member of the ISSMPD.l  I saw two psychiatrists who were members of that group ... Stephen Marmer and Richard Lowenstein.  The ISSMPD was originally very psychoanalytically oriented.  It is now less so and for many reasons, but one serious problem the group had -- Colin Ross was among a number of said doctors who was sued for malpractice in creating multiple alter personalities and false memories which patients had to be treated for or recanted.

The man does not have a great reputation.  Both Marmer and Loewenstein did prescribe medications as well as provide psychoanalysis which costs a fortune.  He also went to medical school when breakthroughs in psychiatry and neurology were in their infancy.

Both Marmer (long term psychoanalyst I saw in L.A.) and Loewenstein gave me medication.  Lowenstein gave me Klonopin which saved my life.

Ross and the ISSMPD was under fire for a long time, and MPD no longer exists.  Multiple Personality Disorder is now called DID -- dissociative identity disorder, which still isn't fully understood.  I would go as far to say, the mistakes made creating false memories and multiple personalities stole away decades of research into DP and DR which got lumped into the dissociative disorder diagnostic category along with MPD.

I was actually a member of the ISSMPD in Los Angeles and attended lectures.  I rejected the concept of MPD as did many other doctors after "The Decade of the Brain" which was 1990-2000, after the Genome Project was being completed.

It is your right to believe or not believe in medication.  However, I suggest not only you read more current medical literature, but to meet individuals whose lives have been saved by psychiatric medication -- particularly those with psychotic disorders -- the "Big Disorders" -- bipolar, schizophrenia, and schizoaffective disorder.  If you spoke to an individual who had such a disorder you would see meds have improved the quality of many lives.

Psychicatric meds are clealy imperfect.  But see an individual who is severely ill on and off his/her meds.  It is like night and day.

I won't go on about this.  But it is a choice to even go to a psychiatrist.  Many never get to see one as they are so sick or have no money to go.  Mental health insurance is awful.  No one is dragging anyone off the street to be drugged.  It is when a person is a danger to self or others they can get "some help."  72 hours in a hospital -- if they are lucky to find a bed these days -- then back out on the street.

We have to use a holistic approach, but I agree with redacted87412 re: where you get your information.  There are a few members of the ISSD-T I respect.  Many I find to be charlatans.  They also prohibited clients from becoming active members in the group.  I could no longer get their publications or attend meetings.

Thank God I was never diagnosed with MPD.  Dr. Ross helped destroy many lives.  I am not lying.
Too tired to go into further detail.



#16 *Dreamer*

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 07:08 PM

THis is the endless battle between the Freudian school and the medical contingent.  Freud had many interesting theories, but many have been tossed as medicine and neurological research has advanced.  It IS now 2016.  Ross is in his 70s?  So he came from an old school of thought.

You may choose your side.  I have been on both sides of this story -- treated by psychoanalysis and by meds. I can say one thing -- the medical/neurological model certainly puts the FMS and MPD models to shame.  A bad time in the history of psychiatry.



#17 *Dreamer*

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 07:11 PM

http://en.wikipedia....i/Colin_A._Ross

Wow, I found him in Wikipedia.  I wouldn't see this man if you paid me.

Sorry to be crabby as well, but this group disappointed me so much.  Loewenstein however saved my life in 1987 by giving me Klonopin which he had found helped patients with DP/DR.  The usefulness of Klonopin and Lamictal (anticonvulsants) has been borne out in Dr. Marucio Sierra's research over the past 3 decades.



#18 *Dreamer*

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 07:26 PM

Also, there is no doctor who will say psychiatry "cures" any mental illness.  Mental illness is seen as something that can go into remission and then return.  Severity also varies from individual to individual.

The usual story is someone feels much better on a psychiatric med -- their symptoms more under conrol, then they go off and fall into a serious pit.  These days here in the US we no longer have mental institutions.  That started in the 1960s.  They were emptied out as they were horrible places.  NOW, anyone can refuse treatment.  Then end result here in the US is the LA County Jail is the largest "mental institution" in the US.

No one can get help.

Read books by individuals who have serious mental illness, and how they got better ...
Kay Redfield Jamison -- Dr. of Psychiatry at Johns Hopkins -- bipolar

Elyn Sacks -- a leading attorney -- schizoprhenia

I have a list of many other books by individuals who have been treated for serious mental illness with meds, therapy and other means and have very successful lives.  I know of others who do not respond to treatment.  They are homeless, in jail, or dead.



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Posted 26 March 2015 - 12:14 AM


 
Don't try and make me out as some sort of looser or lost cause matey. B/c those, I am not. And I'm not the one here suffering from dpd either… whereas you are. 
 
Baseless scaremongering? Really? So you think people (like Dr Colin Ross) who stand up against psychiatry and psych medication are scaremongering? Yeah right… I'd like to hear you deconstruct the arguments he put forward for a start.  And me? I'm scaremongering too yeah? Like, I've got no experience and I don't know anything? And yet anything you say with your trusty 'research article' data is the be-all-to end all.. Give me a break mate. You've just started your journey here.. I'm almost at the top of this mountain and enjoying the view. 
 
So I'm spreading misinformation? Same as above really.. You have no worthy legs to stand on. You're plucking 'facts' and figures out of any article which suits your agenda. Anyone can do that. I could sit here and pull up a hundred articles that put question marks all over the b/s science investigating dissociative disorders that you're bringing up. But I just couldn't be bothered and besides I've got better things to do. With a bit of luck, you'll end up finding out what's really happening in the world of mental health recovery. What I'd like to see is the data from the people who've recovered, b/c that's gonna make a lot more sense and be far more helpful than some of the 'stabbing in the dark' clinical studies that are going on..  But where are they? Nowhere.. and for a very good reason. 
 
So who's really spreading the 'misinformation' anyway? Me? Colin Ross? All the other people with lived experience of dissociative disorders who've worked their way through to recovery and vow never to go anywhere near the mental health system again (and there's plenty of us believe me)?… Or, is the misinformation being spread by the medical system itself? You figure it out. I already have. I've been there, done that. I've seen first hand the overmedicating, lack of help and the lies imbedded in the m/h system and I've made up my mind from experience of having been within that system, and from the experience of lived recovery.
 
I know you're suffering horribly from this disorder (I can tell) and I know what it's like to feel so desperate for something to help. Here's an idea fro you. Have a look outside the mental health/medical system for some answers. Hell, we all know that 'they' can't really help at this stage…. b/c, as 'they' keep telling us 'there are no known treatments for dpd'… 
 
You can try and derail what I say anytime you like. People'll start to see you have no answers for anything anyway.. and that's boring.

#20 Guest_Zed_*

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 02:20 AM

Also, there is no doctor who will say psychiatry "cures" any mental illness.  Mental illness is seen as something that can go into remission and then return.  Severity also varies from individual to individual.
 

 

 

Isn't it amazing that the psychiatrists say "there are no cures for any mental illness" (how convenient for them).

 

They also tell us 'there are no known treatments for dpd'. 

 

They're both lies.

 

Have a guess why 'they' would want to lie to us? I'll give you a hint… ((they make a LOT of money))

 

So have they really got your best intentions in mind? 

 

 

The usual story is someone feels much better on a psychiatric med -- their symptoms more under conrol, then they go off and fall into a serious pit.  These days here in the US we no longer have mental institutions.  That started in the 1960s.  They were emptied out as they were horrible places.  NOW, anyone can refuse treatment.  Then end result here in the US is the LA County Jail is the largest "mental institution" in the US.

No one can get help.

 

I got help. And it wasn't from the mental health dept. 

 

What hope have people got of recovery, from a system that holds no or very little hope for their patients? 

 

Dreamer.. You share a lot of your story, so I'll share some of mine. 

 

I spent a lot of my life at the extreme end of the dissociative scale (about 45 years) but I coped surprising well. Though it all became unstuck one night and I was basically dragged into an ED by the police after threatening to set myself on fire. I was so out of control in life and so friggin' dissociative. I obviously needed desperate help. I was so close to killing myself through my 'misadventures', and often covered in blood from self harm.... So, thanks to my visit to the hospital, I was an official psychiatric patient. 

 

I stuck with the hospitals 'help' and the psychiatrist they sent me to. I spent 2 years in their 'intensive care'. Basically they wanted me to fry my brains on meds for the rest of my life (entry in psychiatrist assessment - 'recommend medicating for life').  I saw all my records through freedom of information and knew they really had NO IDEA on what I was suffering from. Not one of them picked up on the fact that I had DID (even though I told them that's what I had!). They didn't even suspect PTSD after 2 years either, and that was plain as day to anyone with any sort of training. The ONLY thing they ever offered me was meds and some shit therapy. 

 

That's just not good enough. The hospital system was not helpful at all! They made me worse… My story is not uncommon at all. You don't have to look to hard to see a psych ward full of people drugged to the eyeballs and almost completely without hope. 

 

The day I started to recover was the day I stopped the psych meds and walked away from the 'system' (and all the 'science' behind it). I worked hard, and found a great psychologist with tons of experience and spent years going once a week to therapy. I don't really suffer from dpd type symptoms anymore. I was overwhelmed for years, but not anymore. Sometimes it'll pop up, but not often. I've learnt to self heal b/c that's what one of my goals in therapy has been all along. That's a no-brainer.

 

Like someone said to me one day 'it's not what's wrong with you, it's what happened to make you like this'. Wise words. There's nothing 'wrong' with me anyway. There never was.

 

So of course I have no faith in the 'science' based medical system. They couldn't help me then, and they can't help me now. They can't help people with dpd recover either (at least that's what they continue to tell me). They can't help a lot of people with severe mental illnesses… unless of course people call 'help' or even 'a good quality of life', being on psyche meds for the rest of their lives. Some people are ok with that… I'm not. And I'll try and talk people out of going down that path every day of the week b/c there is a far healthier and more productive alternative. 



#21 TDX

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 05:50 AM

You're one of those irrational tree-hugging homeopathic anti-vaccine evolution-is-just-a-theory science-hating accept-my-conveniently-unfalsifiable-hypothesis-is-a-legitimate-school-of-thought-or-die lot and I hate your kind.

I could not have said it better.

At the moment I am reading a lot about dissociation, and there seems to be a lot of controversity about dissociative idendity disorder and the dissociative disorders as a whole. I've not finished reading, but my impression is, that the critics have the better arguments, while the dissociation-researchers arguments are often questionable. I would not trust anyone who works in the field of the dissociative disorders.

#22 jvh18

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 10:12 AM

Obviously no one is going to discredit the benefits of anti-psych meds for people with Schizophrenia etc. but look at the name of the board here, pretty sure it's not for them. This is about dp/dr...

Science and peer reviewed articles and all this might give you reassurance but what does it really mean? That a bureaucracy with regimented process is making a study. As a society we cling to the professionals in every field, we think that the top scientists understand it all, but it's not true. The brain is he most complex organic material on Earth and no matter how cutting edge we are right now, we don't have the answers, at least to most of the questions. Plain and simple.

Look at cancer. There are experts who know a crap load but at the end of the day, they really do not know much at all. People are dying every day in the masses while docs best option is to poison he body in the hope some cAncer cells will die?

#23 jvh18

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 10:14 AM



Anyone that is offering "relief" from dp/dr symptoms I don't take seriously. Sure t can make you function better, however there is a 100% "cure" where it's all gone, I've experience if. To strive for covering the symptoms and masking the problem as opposed to going for 100% elimination is gross/disingenuous and a waste of time. At the same time, we must realize we are all different people. Psychiatry tries to use words to label different diagnoses in the hope of a one stop shop to fix an illness. Nothing is that cut and dry. There are different levels of dissociation, that's why a scientific study like that is inherently flawed. How much can you learn from a percentage? What does 70% improvement even mean, there are so many other factors there for me to not trust that information. Further, if you haven't experienced dissaciation or worked with it for years you shouldn't be doing studies. Not sure but something tells me the researchers aren't informed enough. Haven't most of us tried to express our symptoms to other people and some have not been able to understand at all?

That is what is wrong with Western culture and I'm a proud "hippie" "treehugger". As a society we are grossly out of touch because everything is about $$. We need to question everything more and critically look at the issues surrounding medicine psychiatry etc.

If you don't have society bombarding you with ads every day saying we need to look a certain way, dress a certain way, act a certain way, drink, be successful, make a lot of money. If we spent less time online and more time outside with nature. If we took accountability, recognized our shortcomings and consciously worked to become better people instead of taking a pill in hopes hat it does.

What do big pharmaceutical companies care about, they see the world through the lens of the haves and have nots. They want to be the haves and people unhappy with their lives are easy targets. If you don't see this of at least are open to the possibility you need to think more critically and not take everything at face value.

#24 jvh18

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 12:14 PM

I'm just talking from my experience. Dp/dr is a different type of phenomenon, in my opinion, that doesn't necessarily fit well with how medical field treats illnesses. Why is that? Because it's something that is so unknown to most people and the medical field, we don't know how to treat it effectively. It's not a condition with, like schizophrenia with manifest symptoms that express themselves and which can be objectively successfully treated (like hallucinations etc).

Don't get me started on cancer. Do you homework, many patients don't even respond to chemotherapy. Chemo works very well with some cancers but not with others. When looking to advance, you have to look at the bigger picture, and that's what is happening now with injections of the HIV virus which has been a successful treatment so far, but like everything is being halted by the FDA so it won't be widely available for at least two years while thousands will die in that span. My little sister passed away from cancer. Oncologists never know all of he answers and they always toe the line between half a politician and half a doctor. That's not to discredit the work they do, but I am simply raising the point that sometimes we need to look somewhere else for answers or treatment.

Dude, you calling me a kook for expressing a different opinion than yours is not necessary. I agree, maybe some of these treatments help people out. But personally I've experienced what 100% recovery feels like and it doesn't just have to be about making you comfortable. To find permanent relief let's be more ambitious than that.




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