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did we choose to have DP\DR?
Started By
Guest_lmnop_*
, Sep 10 2012 01:03 PM
6 replies to this topic
#1
Guest_lmnop_*
Guest_lmnop_*
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Posted 10 September 2012 - 01:03 PM
well, atleast that's what this professor belives. he is a well respected professor here in israel, and i heard he advocates he's theory in the classes he gives and he is sure that he gonna get a nobel prize ...
http://www.rctnonline.com/rctn.html
... http://www.rctnonline.com/rctn.html
#3
SSJ3Lotokun
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Posted 10 September 2012 - 01:14 PM
While it's true that these things often develop on a subconscious level as a reaction to trauma or some other event, that doesn't really make it a "choice". That sort of wording, especially coming from a professional, is both disrespectful and dangerous.
#4
kate_edwin
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Posted 10 September 2012 - 02:19 PM
There might be some choice in keeping it around. But no definatly no choice in getting it in the first place. Unless he's countig say choosing to use drugs or something
#5
Guest_Le Chat_*
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Posted 10 September 2012 - 02:51 PM
I just finished writing a four page article! Now let's see if it's edited to death.
At any rate, I have a massive problem with this concept. "Choice" in becoming ill. The irony is this search for "unconscious" memories can prove everlasting. Freud himself when analyzing "hysterical" women would quiz them and quiz them about early sexual abuse which they had not come in to discuss or seek help for. They were anxious, depressed -- not even with DP. He actually DEMANDED that they recall sexual abuse. They would "remember" something that never happened ...
This "Persuasion" under color of authority is well known in coaching children to admit to satanic ritual abuse (in the 1980s/90s) which was debunked -- "Yes, YES! Mr. Buckey took me up in a spaceship and put coffee inside of me." Doctors have been sued for creating 100 alter personalities and false memories in patients. University students in experiments have been convinced that something happened to them (getting lost in a store or an amusement park) when it never happened.
Also, police have gotten confessions of murder out of innocent individuals who are broken down by 12 hours of interrogation.
People have a lot of problems with my comments on this as well, but the story of Sybil has been exposed as a hoax. There are tape recordings of sessions, proof that Sybil was given electroshock, and given hypnotics, and "truth serum." Shirley Mason had problems, but Dr. Wilbur, her book, subsequently the film in 1976 proved to be a cash cow. This is nothing new.
Freud himself, despite much of his questionable activities, stated that at some time in the future (meaning after his death) -- unconscious activities would be found to have a NEUROLOGICAL source/cause. Meantime, if you research his work in detail, you will find some of it appalling.
Last: in the past it was believed that "cold" "schizophrenogenic" mothers caused schizophrenia. "Cold mothers" were thought to cause autism. We now know that the bulk of mental illnesses are indeed caused by genetic predisposition, neurological problems, etc. Schizophrenia, bipolar, schizoaffective, OCD and more have been found to be MEDICAL DISORDERS.
Nature and Nurture certainly figure into all of this. But to say that having social anxiety, depression, DP/DR, post-partum depression (clearly proven to be medical) is a CHOICE is like saying getting Parkinson's or diabetes is a choice.
There is certainly a "perfect storm." If you think solely of veterans with PTSD. Some get it, some don't. Why? Some have a strong predisposition to it. DOGS who help in the military get PTSD. Does a dog have an unconscious? The more likely cause is unrelenting stress is LESS TOLERATED by some individuals than others. Some children are horribly abused and do not get DP/DR, or any other dissociative disorder. Why? There is resiliency in some people.
There is SO much more to "brain chemicals." We are looking at faulty electrical communications between neurons, genes, epigenes.
One can always work at ALL disorders to improve quality of life. This is true of ALL illness ... sometimes it works brilliantly, other times, illnesses are treatment refractory. The psychoanalytic school would have you believe you need 4 sessions a week for 10 years before you get better. My mother was a psychiatrist who was trained by a protege of Freud. The longer she worked as a psychiatrist she realized her work as a psychoanalysti was going nowhere and that her patients and others were responding more to medication, and other treatments, though we have NO CURES, and the medications we have today are not the final answer to any of this.
This is not a choice. If it is a protective mechanism, animals have these -- survival mechanisms. If the mechanism goes bad, that is also not a choice.
This is why there is continued stigma and ignorance about mental illness, and even sexual orientation. You can't choose to be gay and you can't be "cured" of being gay. Only a certain subset of the public and certain therapists still cling to this concept.
NO.
And PS, I am NOT saying that my being abused didn't affect me in MANY ways. However, what makes more sense is if one is kept in a constant state of anxiety with chaos, verbal abuse, keeping secrets -- well I was always waiting to step on a landmine. That sort of CONSTANT OVERSTIMULATION will of course cause you to "shut down." The constant production of adrenaline, cortisol, etc. can indeed alter the brain. This would be like saying we chose to be born in abusive environments and/or if we weren't we are hiding from some horror we can't recall. I recall all of my abuse. Most people do. They simply do not like to talk about it.
This is not true for every person here, but I speak as someone who was abused, recalls it all, and is merely coming to terms with it in a variety of ways. We did not CHOOSE this.
At any rate, I have a massive problem with this concept. "Choice" in becoming ill. The irony is this search for "unconscious" memories can prove everlasting. Freud himself when analyzing "hysterical" women would quiz them and quiz them about early sexual abuse which they had not come in to discuss or seek help for. They were anxious, depressed -- not even with DP. He actually DEMANDED that they recall sexual abuse. They would "remember" something that never happened ...
This "Persuasion" under color of authority is well known in coaching children to admit to satanic ritual abuse (in the 1980s/90s) which was debunked -- "Yes, YES! Mr. Buckey took me up in a spaceship and put coffee inside of me." Doctors have been sued for creating 100 alter personalities and false memories in patients. University students in experiments have been convinced that something happened to them (getting lost in a store or an amusement park) when it never happened.
Also, police have gotten confessions of murder out of innocent individuals who are broken down by 12 hours of interrogation.
People have a lot of problems with my comments on this as well, but the story of Sybil has been exposed as a hoax. There are tape recordings of sessions, proof that Sybil was given electroshock, and given hypnotics, and "truth serum." Shirley Mason had problems, but Dr. Wilbur, her book, subsequently the film in 1976 proved to be a cash cow. This is nothing new.
Freud himself, despite much of his questionable activities, stated that at some time in the future (meaning after his death) -- unconscious activities would be found to have a NEUROLOGICAL source/cause. Meantime, if you research his work in detail, you will find some of it appalling.
Last: in the past it was believed that "cold" "schizophrenogenic" mothers caused schizophrenia. "Cold mothers" were thought to cause autism. We now know that the bulk of mental illnesses are indeed caused by genetic predisposition, neurological problems, etc. Schizophrenia, bipolar, schizoaffective, OCD and more have been found to be MEDICAL DISORDERS.
Nature and Nurture certainly figure into all of this. But to say that having social anxiety, depression, DP/DR, post-partum depression (clearly proven to be medical) is a CHOICE is like saying getting Parkinson's or diabetes is a choice.
There is certainly a "perfect storm." If you think solely of veterans with PTSD. Some get it, some don't. Why? Some have a strong predisposition to it. DOGS who help in the military get PTSD. Does a dog have an unconscious? The more likely cause is unrelenting stress is LESS TOLERATED by some individuals than others. Some children are horribly abused and do not get DP/DR, or any other dissociative disorder. Why? There is resiliency in some people.
There is SO much more to "brain chemicals." We are looking at faulty electrical communications between neurons, genes, epigenes.
One can always work at ALL disorders to improve quality of life. This is true of ALL illness ... sometimes it works brilliantly, other times, illnesses are treatment refractory. The psychoanalytic school would have you believe you need 4 sessions a week for 10 years before you get better. My mother was a psychiatrist who was trained by a protege of Freud. The longer she worked as a psychiatrist she realized her work as a psychoanalysti was going nowhere and that her patients and others were responding more to medication, and other treatments, though we have NO CURES, and the medications we have today are not the final answer to any of this.
This is not a choice. If it is a protective mechanism, animals have these -- survival mechanisms. If the mechanism goes bad, that is also not a choice.
This is why there is continued stigma and ignorance about mental illness, and even sexual orientation. You can't choose to be gay and you can't be "cured" of being gay. Only a certain subset of the public and certain therapists still cling to this concept.
NO.
And PS, I am NOT saying that my being abused didn't affect me in MANY ways. However, what makes more sense is if one is kept in a constant state of anxiety with chaos, verbal abuse, keeping secrets -- well I was always waiting to step on a landmine. That sort of CONSTANT OVERSTIMULATION will of course cause you to "shut down." The constant production of adrenaline, cortisol, etc. can indeed alter the brain. This would be like saying we chose to be born in abusive environments and/or if we weren't we are hiding from some horror we can't recall. I recall all of my abuse. Most people do. They simply do not like to talk about it.
This is not true for every person here, but I speak as someone who was abused, recalls it all, and is merely coming to terms with it in a variety of ways. We did not CHOOSE this.
Edited by Dreamer*, 10 September 2012 - 02:58 PM.
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#6
marleygirl
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Posted 11 September 2012 - 08:18 AM
"We are animals, worrying about bank accounts."
Absolutely agree.
Absolutely agree.
#7
wise
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Posted 20 September 2012 - 02:17 PM
I think tolerating too much abuse will give you dpd. Alot of us have done so to survive in life, or had no choice but to endure things in childhood. Tolerating abuse as an adult doesn't make you strong it just makes you a doormat. You may convince yourself that you are strong because you can endure torment but an assault doesn't have to be physical to do damage as we all know by now. When you have a choice and yet choose to be victimized by toxic circumstances, you are in effect choosing to have dpd.
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