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Reality isn't real DP/DR free


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#25 UniversalShape

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 08:30 PM

The place where you obtained the information to know how to type that message.


So your view of reality is that my mind is reality ? that nothing beyond my mind is real ? that my mind is the sole reality and anything that exists outside of the mind is all just there for the mind's own entertainment ?

IMO That is a pretty dark disproportionate view of what this energy process called life is all about, It's based on an extremely self centered ignorant premise that you or I are alone as individuals and only exist within our own Ideas and dreams of an imaginary self that exists within our illusory mental belief system called a mind.

But then again that's the prison world of an ego, the ego consciousness which separates and takes you away from the felt present moment of awareness and it's wonder / mystery and into the prison of the mind where the terrible master locks you away in a distant nostalgic memory of the past or a projected foolish pipe dream of the future. Hindsight is always 20/20 and the future can be predicted through a hidden intention. Yet you cannot do one or the other without being conscious of the present moment of awareness. Fear is what perpetuates the idea that we are only a mind and keeps you within that boundary, Fear traps you in the mind and keeps you locked up in your own prison. There is no prison but the prison in your mind. Now lets take a look at what we are afraid of. We are afraid of life itself. We are afraid of what is unknown in life because we are afraid of death. All fear ultimately stems from a fear of death. Death is what perpetuates life and without life there is no significance of death and without death there is no birth of life.

Now here is the key. If you are not afraid of death then you are not afraid of life.

Right now you are afraid of life because you are afraid of death.

Now you're thinking how can I not be afraid of death ?

Well you can not be afraid of death if you understand what death is, as a result of that understanding , you will understand what life is. One is the shadow of the other and as long you hold onto that fear of death, the closer to death you will become as it will suck your life energy away and keep you trapped in a mental prison ruled by fear and your own personal mental police man.

But since we all walk with weight of our repressed fears/sins against ourselves (because of dualistic heaven and hell religious cult operating systems) we are all made to feel guilty and unworthy of life so we judge ourselves in a dualistic fashion which only further keeps us blind and stupid. Splits us into pieces and keeps us from seeing our own wholeness/oneness/divinity.

#26 gill

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 08:55 PM

So your view of reality is that my mind is reality ?


No. I meant the place independent of your mind. Specifically, objective real.. ...

#27 UniversalShape

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 09:14 PM

No. I meant the place independent of your mind. Specifically, objective real.. ...


Where is this place you are speaking of, I'm not too familiar with it, do you have a special ability to travel outside of your mind and reach this "objective real" ? Do you have any special extra sensory perceiving astral projection abilities that you want to share with us ? I would be more than interested as to know how they work

As far as I know to my knowledge people can only see things from the view of their own self, you look out to the external world from within your own self's perspective and when you look out to the external world without a foundation of a self you're using the dream machine in your mind, the imagination. You don't actually see things the way they are, you only see things the way you are or the way you can imagine them to be and you live your day to day life trusting that imagination of an ideal or imperfect objective reality perspective based on your emotional state. (Happy man sees a happy world, sad man sees a sad world)

#28 never_giving_up

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 09:18 PM

The fact you are using the internet shows that you believe in a universal understanding of electricity, programming and engineering.

If you get an infection you take antibiotics. If you are thirsty you drink water. If you do not drink water, you die.

There are universal standards and accepted truths. Do you agree with this at least?

#29 never_giving_up

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 09:22 PM

Where is this place you are speaking of, I'm not too familiar with it, do you have a special ability to travel outside of your mind and reach this "objective real" ? Do you have any special extra sensory perceiving astral projection abilities that you want to share with us ? I would be more than interested as to know how they work

As far as I know to my knowledge people can only see things from the view of their own self, you look out to the external world from within your own self's perspective and when you look out to the external world without a foundation of a self you're using the dream machine in your mind, the imagination. You don't actually see things the way they are, you only see things the way you are or the way you can imagine them to be and you live your day to day life trusting that imagination of an ideal or imperfect objective reality perspective based on your emotional state. (Happy man sees a happy world, sad man sees a sad world)


If people don't see things the way they are then how can you say that you know how people see things?

Surely you must be including yourself in the group of "people who cannot see things objectively."

What you are describing is something that is fixed. You are saying that it is not possible for people to see things as anything else but their subjective perception. Therefore by this logic you cannot describe anyone's perception but your own.

#30 gill

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 10:18 PM

what never_giving_up said,

do you have a special ability to travel outside of your mind and reach this "objective real"


No, but that's not what I or is usually meant by 'objective'. Objective reality is that which is independent of our minds control.

#31 UniversalShape

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 12:26 AM

The fact you are using the internet shows that you believe in a universal understanding of electricity, programming and engineering.

If you get an infection you take antibiotics. If you are thirsty you drink water. If you do not drink water, you die.

There are universal standards and accepted truths. Do you agree with this at least?


I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here and how it pertains to this thread. Maybe if you rephrase it in a manner in which it stays on topic then I'll answer the question. Universal standards and accepted truths ? accepted by who ? universal standards you say ?

see you're already forming a false objective reality through a subjective belief system that you've been conditioned to accept as a universal standard and an accepted truth. One of the key constituents of the subjective experience is survival and behind survival is the fear of death. So in essence your survival and or your subjective existence has become reliant on these false objective reality tunnels due to your upbringing in your environment, that you need electricity, engineering, programming, internet, antibiotics as universal objective truths to survival. It's just the way you were raised and conditioned to be dependent and clingy. All of these are scientific, technological and medical materials that which objectively exist to you the modern human but they are not the objective reality because without human subjects they would pretty much be meaningless. Take for instance a chair, it exists as an object in the external world but without your own human subjective understanding of the chair and it's purpose which is for your human ass to sit on it and lets say you the subjective conscious observer of the chair had no ass or no use to sit in a chair, the objective meaning of the chair would be pretty much useless to you subjectively wouldn't it? It would just be a pile of wooden sticks put together craft fully . Would you still consider it an accepted truth, a universal standard, objective reality ? In essence you learn what's what from an early age unto adulthood and you form your own reality on the way which is based heavily on the influence of your environment.

All in all none of what you mentioned has anything to do with the objective reality and is still a subjective reality because it is all dependent on you the subject and the matter at hand. Nothing to do with the actual objective reality as it truly is without a personal subjective bias. The objective reality is always one that is full of wonder and mystery.


what never_giving_up said,



No, but that's not what I or is usually meant by 'objective'. Objective reality is that which is independent of our minds control.


How do you know what is usually meant by "objective" ? Look up the word Objective in a dictionary and that's what it means in the English glossary.

If people don't see things the way they are then how can you say that you know how people see things?


Because I am a person and you are a person, see the commonality here ? I as a person have the sense to know that everything I look at, I look at through my own eyes and walking in my own shoes and that is highly subjective. Now if you think that you see things the way they are in actuality well then you are just deluding yourself because you don't. I'm 100 % certain of this

Correct me if I'm wrong but do you actually think that you see things in reality as they actually exist in reality ? That you have no personal bias when you see things around you and that you reflect from an all knowing all wise perspective ?

Sorry but that just doesn't ring true to me.


Surely you must be including yourself in the group of "people who cannot see things objectively."


Yes I am including myself and don't call me shirley, I can only have my own subjective reality, We don't all live under 1 reality, we all have our own subjective reality (awareness of a self, our ego, identification, belief system, imagination, etc whatever makes us unique and the same) we all live with our selves from a day to day basis and yet at the same time that subjective awareness or reality can be morphed into and designed into a false objective reality or a one world view which happens to so many people. (Example Just look at exactly what Hitler did with Nazi Germany, he created the aryan race idea to gather his nations subjective awareness reality and turn it into a objective racist ideology ). In other words, critical thinking skills are needed here, one must think for oneself and one must question the higher authorities which seek to form objective realities.

What you are describing is something that is fixed. You are saying that it is not possible for people to see things as anything else but their subjective perception. Therefore by this logic you cannot describe anyone's perception but your own.


Well no shit, can you ?

can you describe someone else perceptions ? can you even explain your own perceptions to someone who doesn't have them ? Can you go up to someone who's never experienced dp/dr and effectively communicate your subjective perspective so that the person can genuinely understand where you're coming from ?

Really now

#32 Tommygunz

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 12:57 AM

edit.....

btw, don't post when your drunk or you'll have a post that ends up like this one. lol.

#33 Pablo

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 06:31 AM

i think you may have missed the point a bit. saying there will never be a "magic pill" isn't so much a literal term. of course there will be, some day. they are making breakthroughs in the field of psychology everday and one day they will know exactly how to fix it. but in the mean time people cannot wait around for the miracle cure.


I don't believe this, a persons psychology is so complex no pill or single method can sort such problems no matter how good it is. This sort of thinking comes from the mechanical model that people with mental disorders are broken physically like a broken car, whereas the evidence suggests more and more every year that this is out dated thinking and things are far more complex and a more holistic view is needed, even all the genetic research is suggesting now that environment and upbringing are far more important factors in mental health than genes. Everybody has an individual psychology, nobody here will have exactly the same symptoms and each person will have different levels of anxiety, depression, anger, dp, dr, which creates a complex map of their state, so each persons treatment will also have to be individual to them.

#34 never_giving_up

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 06:43 AM

"Because I am a person and you are a person, see the commonality here ? I as a person have the sense to know that everything I look at, I look at through my own eyes and walking in my own shoes and that is highly subjective. Now if you think that you see things the way they are in actuality well then you are just deluding yourself because you don't. I'm 100 % certain of this

Correct me if I'm wrong but do you actually think that you see things in reality as they actually exist in reality ? That you have no personal bias when you see things around you and that you reflect from an all knowing all wise perspective ?"

Don't you see you are saying that you know OBJECTIVELY how things are. Saying that EVERYONE perceives reality ENTIRELY subjectively is an ABSOLUTE OBJECTIVE STATEMENT. You are making a claim to truth.

If I accept that as true then you are immediately wrong because it is self-contradictory.

I seriously don't understand what definitions you are working with here.

#35 Pablo

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 06:45 AM

OK, I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about now.


Who me? edit: ah you edited

The way I see it is that things exist objectively, so for example if two people look at a car then both will see the same car which exists, but then subjectively that car could mean different things to both people and have different significance depending on each persons life experiences and personality, and the whole reality of looking at the car for each person includes these meanings because they flavour the interpretation of it, therefore the reality of the looking at the car is subjective to each person.

#36 BusyBee

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 06:55 AM

I like the start of this post, its great to see that you feel better after all going through the same as all of us, wondering if we'll ever get better.

You lost me throughout the middle and towards the end of your post. I agree with what you say about deep thinkers and intelligent people being more prone to DP: If i havnt thought so much about what options to take when i was under pressure, and just phoned the police and got a restaining order put on the bloody man like my council estate other ego i probably wouldnt be in this boat now.

However: despite that i have a talent for passing exams with top marks after never looking at the books, does not mean that I am the sort of deep thinker or intelligent person that caused myself to get DP, and can simply get myself out of it by 'thinking' correctly. I actually only just found out the meaning behind the question, 'if a tree fell down and there was no one to hear it did it make a sound?'. I am actually quite a simple mind. It took me over 20 years to understand that question, until yesterday i always answered, 'well obviously! derrr..'

So my existence consists of the seven life processes and that is about it. My thoughts consist of normal things like, 'what shall i have for tea', and at the most, 'I wonder what chemicals in my body are causing this strange symptom'.

Its the same for most of us, anxiety or no anxiety. So explain how 'thinking' alone will get us out of it.




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