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Supplements for DP


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#1 Tommygunz

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 09:21 PM

HOW I GOT STARTED IN THIS - while obsessively surfing the forums one day, i came across a post by cBURT, about a sublingual B complex that had improved his DP. in turn i thought, "well, it can't hurt to try". so the next day i started using one. it was only a matter of days before i was noticing subtle improvements, in fact it was the first time i had noticed any improvements at all really. that same week, i had my second panic attack at work. i decided to drink a propel fitness water because in the past i had noticed drinking one had a mild calming effect. well this time it had a powerful calming effect. i couldn't understand why until i read the ingredients, in highlighted letters it said, "contains choline, necessary for healthy brain and nervous system function". when i got home i decided to research choline a little deeper, turns out choline is considered a B vitamin and when you combine a B vitamin with other B vitamins it enhances their effectiveness. what i found was compelling enough for me to add it as a supplement. while at the supplement store, i noticed most choline was combined with inositol, i had no knowledge of inositol, but the bottle had some good things to say about it and suggested it be combined with choline, so i thought, "well, it can't hurt to try". when i got home i decided to read up on inositol, also known as vitamin B8, i was blown away buy everything it could do. over the next week i noticed steady improvement, yet had this plaguing question of why, why is this working when seemingly nothing else does? it was that question that got me started on all of the research and self experimentation i have done. in my search for answers i have found many things that are very helpful with recovering from DP, what follows is the best of what i have found.

ACETYLCHOLINE - is the neurotransmitter in the brain that is credited for memory, learning ability and concentration. here is a list of symptoms that can result from low acetylcholine. see if they sound familiar. Difficulty remembering names and faces after meeting people, Difficulty remembering peoples birthdays and numbers, Difficulty remembering lists, directions or instructions. Forgetting common facts, Trouble understanding spoken or written language, Forget where you put things, Making simple mistakes at work, Slowed and/or confused thinking, Difficulty finding the right words before speaking, Disorientation, Prefer to do things alone/social withdrawal, Rarely feel passionate, Feel despair and lack joy, Loss of creativity/lack imagination. here are a few things that can lead to low acetylcholine levels. Choline deficiency, B1 & B5 deficiency, Chronic stress, Inadequate sleep, Elevated blood sugar/insulin resistance, Mercury, lead, aluminium, PCB’s, fertilizers, pesticides and EMF exposure.

DOPAMINE - is a neurotransmitter that controls the flow of information in the brain, primarily pertaining to movement, pleasure, motivation, and cognitive function. a lack of dopamine activity results in reduced ability to feel pleasure, apathy, lack of enthusiasm, depression, lack of motivation, loss of interest, lack of urgency/procrastination, lack of attention span/concentration, slow learning, lack of libido, craving uppers, introverted/shyness, mentally and physically fatigued easily, prone to addictions, oversleep/trouble getting out of bed, weight gain. things that can result in low dopamine are a family history of alcoholism/ADD/ADHD, STRESS, specific antidepressants, cocaine, amphetamines, poor nutrition, poor sleep habits, alcohol, caffeine, and sugar. vitamin deficiency's that can decrease dopamine are C, D, B6, B12 and zinc.

ANIRACETAM - is a nootropic or "smart drug". It is lipid (fat) soluble and is known to have cognition enhancing effects. it has also been proven to have anxiolitic effects. it's anxiolitic effects are shown to be in response to stimulation of acetylcholine, dopamine and serotonin receptors. it's cognitive enhancing effects are due to selective modulation of AMPA receptors which are responsible for a significant portion of cognitive abilities like memory and learning. basically it clears up brain fog and reduces anxiety significantly. it does a great job at burning through acetylcholine though so it must be taken with an acetylcholine precursor like alpha GPC to avoid side effects. while it's sold as a nutritional supplement in most countries. it is prescription in europe and parts of africa.

ALPHA GPC - is a precursor to the neurotransmitter acetylcholine. unlike other choline sources it can easily cross the blood brain barrier to directly increase acetylcholine. in conjuction with DMAE and Phosphatidylserine it is a very powerful yet safe combination for increasing acetylcholine. in many studies it has shown marked improvement in memory and concentration as well as learning ability.

DMAE - is also a precursor to the neurotransmitter acetylcholine. DMAE is very effective at increasing the overall level and activity of acetylcholine because of it's ability to cross the blood brain barrier and to assist in the conversion of alpha gpc into acetylcholine. DMAE claims to improve alertness, mood and cognitive functions. in the time i took it i noticed improvements in each one of those areas.

PHOSPHATIDYLSERINE - is an important fatty acid in the cell membrane known as a phospholipid. PS increases communication between cells in your brain by increasing the number of receptor sites for receiving messages. PS modulates the fluidity of cell membranes (essential to your brains ability to send and receive chemicle communications efficiently). PS will improve memory, learning ability, concentretion, and mental acuity (by increasing acetylcholine), reduce stress (by regulating cortisol), improve mood and DP/DR itself (by increasing dopamine). it has also been shown to increase alpha brain waves 15-20%.

B VITAMINS - are the all around must have vitamin for anyone looking to combat an anxiety spectrum disorder. they are crucial to energy production, healthy metabolism, cell division, and nervous system health. some are necessary for the conversion of amino acids into neurotransmitters like dopamine, serotonin and acetylcholine. not all B supplements are created equal. many contain synthetic B's that the body doesn't properly utilize. always be thorough when selecting a B vitamin and go for the natural forms. an example of synthetic is B12 cyanacobalamin. which has a cyanide base. sounds yummy huh? whereas the natural form that an apple would contain is methylcobalamin. so apple or cyanide? kind of a no brainer. look for coenzyme B complex's as they are the natural form of the B vitamin with the coenzyme added so they are ready for the body to put to use immediately.

UNDERSTANDING DP/DR - What happens in DP/DR that allows it to become such a dominant part of your life is you notice it. when it triggered you may not have been aware of any immediate danger. you may have been under alot of stress at work, or just smoked a bowl with your friends. as far as you knew though you were well within your ability to tolerate the situation at hand. subconsciously though you couldn't handle it. whatever action that you took was one action too many. this action sent a signal to your brain that you had overdone something and that you needed to dissociate in order to avoid any further stress/trauma/toxic influence. so your brain triggered the fight or flight response. a state of mind that makes you essentially hyper aware so that you can better defend yourself from any threats. now as far as you were aware there was no threat. as far as you knew, you were in control just moments ago. you had nothing to fear. but now your brain is telling you that there is an immediate threat, but the only thing out of the ordinary is the way you feel. so you send the message to the brain that the threat IS the way you feel. well, now you have confirmed with your brain that there is a threat, so it maintains the fight or flight response so that you can stay in a heightened state to protect yourself. do you see where this is going? Because the feelings that come with the fight or flight response are interpereted as a threat, the threat does not cease. everytime you think about it or notice how you feel, your brain gets the message that the threat is still there. it gets locked in a self sustaining cycle.

HOW TO BREAK THE CYCLE- ignore DP/DR. move on with your life. forget about how you feel. get out and live a little. basically it will only go away once it is no longer perceived as a threat, so don't let it threaten you. don't be afraid of it. find distracting activities that allow you to not think about it. outdoor sports are a great distraction that help you relearn social skills and are a great source of exercise. go for nature walks and bike rides, go to the grocery store, out to dinner, to the movies, the book store, the library, the park, your friends house, your parents house, or even the coffee shop down the street. get out of the house, off your computer and live your life. think about the person you were before DP/DR. don't sit there and wallow, wishing that you could be that person again, remind yourself that you ARE that person. i understand that it is hard at first. it doesn't get better over night. but it won't get better at all if you don't make a move in the right direction. you have to forget about DP/DR in order to recover. not really forget it exists but forget that you have it. once it is out of your mind and no longer your focus, your mind will receive the "ALL CLEAR" signal. it will see that the threat is no longer there and begin to halt the feelings of DP/DR.

THE SUPPLEMENTS - to assist with moving on from DP/DR,i have created a list of supplements that help to reduce the symptoms. they are very effective when used in conjuction with each other. it is unlikely that they will take your DP/DR away completely but to date this regimen has had a high success rate at reducing symptoms and allowing people to get back to their lives.

THE INGREDIENTS
Aniracetam - JL Nootropics, Two 750 mg capsules daily, 1 morning, 1 afternoon
Alpha GPC - Jarrow Formulas, Two 300 mg capsules daily, 1 with each Aniracetam
DMAE - Jarrow Formulas, One 150 mg tablet daily
Sharp Thought - Country Life, Three capsules daily for 1 week, then reduce to one a day
Coenzyme B Complex - Country Life, directions vary upon your sensitivity
Any USP Certified Fish Oil, high DHA content 2,000 - 5,000 mg daily


I would like to thank every member of this community for being here for me when i needed you, your help and support was crucial for my recovery and without you guys i never would have had the drive to find the answers that i have. there were times when i could have given up on myself, but i could not and will not give up on all of you.

WARNING - THIS TREATMENT IS INTENDED TO BE DONE INDEPENDENT OF ANY MEDICATION. I CANNOT BE CERTAIN OF ANY POTENTIAL INTERACTIONS. IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW THIS TREATMENT COULD AFFECT ANY MEDICATION YOUR ON PLEASE ASK YOUR DOCTOR OR PHARMACIST!!!

This regimen will always be subject to modification due to new findings. which there probably will be.

#2 jonnyfiasco

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 03:49 AM

I must say, thankyou for your hard work. I am going to follow this protocol and will report my progress.

What do you think about taking fish oil on top of this? Research indicates that every membrane of every nerve cell in the brain requires essential fatty acids to function properly. Deficiencies in Omega 3 fatty acids, especially EPA and DHA have been conclusively linked to decreased brain function including decreased cognitive abilities, aberrant behaviour, increased aggression, increased depression, autism, increased memory loss, accelerated brain aging, degeneration, and dementia and to decreased normal brain and cognitive development in children.

I will add though, it's unlikely that this will be beneficial for anyone unless there is a lifestyle change included as well. And by that I mean giving up smoking (how can we kid ourselves that this is not toxic to the body and brain), reduction in alcohol consumption to a minimal amount, starting sweat-producing exercise daily(this is a biggie and really helps me if I am feeling anxious and depressed), reduction in consumption of refined sugars, wheat and dairy (all three scientifically proven to be poisons to the body), increase in consumption of raw fruits and vegetables. Also getting a handle on stressors in your environment such as toxic relationships, financial problems etc.

#3 dreamingoflife

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 10:46 PM

I have started to take sublingual B complex as of today and am going to pick up some inositol tomorrow and see if this helps me any. I know you suggested more to add to the mix but at this time I will start with those and add more gradual if I see the need to. I have a huge pill phobia (liquid too) so I have to take baby steps lol. I hope for great things with this or at least SOME improvement. Have my fingers crossed!

#4 Tommygunz

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 11:16 PM

that's great, but i highly suggest 5 HTP for best result, don't sweat the choline too much.

#5 dreamingoflife

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Posted 22 October 2009 - 01:41 AM

i'll probably get around to taking it once I get through these 2 vitamins first. I have more anxiety/panic than depression so not sure how well 5htp would do for me in the long run. I just need something to chill me out at the moment.

#6 dreamingoflife

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Posted 22 October 2009 - 07:32 PM

Ok so I called my doctor today just to make sure that taking xanax with inositol would be ok if I needed to and my doctor was totally against me taking inositol and said that there is no known supplement or vitamin that can help or cure panic attacks or anxiety. So I don't know now what to do. I am so frustrated at this point. I know people have had luck with these vitamins but now talking to my doctor I am second guessing if I should even bother with it. Ugh...

#7 Tommygunz

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Posted 22 October 2009 - 09:29 PM

no offense, but your doctor is a dumbass that doesn't want to lose a patient. there are dozens of studies proving that inositol has therapeutic benefit for anxiety, OCD and panic disorder.

http://biopsychiatry.com/inositol.htm
http://www.nutrition... ... sitol.html
http://www.houseofnu...com/cholin.html
http://www.epigee.or...dtreatment.html

#8 dreamingoflife

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Posted 22 October 2009 - 11:17 PM

No offense taken. I seriously am considering changing my doctor because this one seems to only think antidepressants are the answer to all my problems. I don't have any interest in taking them anymore. I am starting to think all doctors are useless with anxiety disorders.

#9 jonnyfiasco

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 07:07 AM

Anxiety, panic attacks and depression are symptoms of low GABA and serotonin. These can be increased through many different vitamins and minerals such as magnesium and B vitamins.

So your doctor is either a stupid fool or a downright liar. Either way you need to change doctors.

The literature and science is clear that nutritional supplementation and diet change can completely change mental and emotional health for the better. 95% of serotonin is actually produced in the gut, so if your gut is not functioning properly, production of serotonin is going to be flawed. Taking an SSRI may help the symptoms to some degree, but if you don't fix the problems in your gut you've got no chance long term.

After reading Tommygunz serotonin stimulus package, I actually remembered about a book that I had bought a while back but had not had a chance to read. The Ultramind Solution by Dr. Mark Hyman. You can get it at Amazon and download the free guide at http://www.ultramind.com/guide

The book clearly shows the scientific relationship between brain disorders (depression, anxiety, brain fog etc etc) AND whole body health. His theory is to heal your body to heal your brain. Plenty of references and case studies in there.

#10 jonnyfiasco

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 07:30 AM

On a different note, I am actually surprised this thread is not getting the props it deserves. Everyone seems to be concerned about complaining and venting about their symptoms on the main forum when the majority of their problems are probably nutritionally and lifestyle based.

#11 hd83

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 05:48 PM

I've been trying Tommy's supplements for about 5 or 6 days now. Still don't feel a difference but I'm going to stick with it for probably 2 months and then decide from there where to go.

#12 ZachT

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 08:21 PM

Yeah, i am taking the regular Vitamin b complex and i am starting to feel less depressed. :D






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By Tommygunz in Tommygunz's Blog, on 29 March 2012 - 11:42 PM

HOW I GOT STARTED IN THIS - while obsessively surfing the forums one day, i came across a post by cBURT, about a sublingual B complex that had improved his DP. in turn i thought, "well, it can't hurt to try". so the next day i started using one. it was only a matter of days before i was noticing subtle improvements, in fact it was the first...

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