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MDMA therapy?


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#25 comfortably numb

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 07:57 PM

MDMA was a big fucking drug in the gay scene and clubs in the 80's. Thats how it became popular before then it was a little known chemical. But the law makers caught on that people where havin fun with it. It was banned in the US around 85 i think. So ya do the math on that one.

Im drunk now and too lazy too look up dates so im going by memory. I love my alcohol. Way too much :( .

#26 Matt210

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 09:15 PM

MDMA was a big flower* drug in the gay scene and clubs in the 80's. Thats how it became popular before then it was a little known chemical. But the law makers caught on that people where havin fun with it. It was banned in the US around 85 i think. So ya do the math on that one.

Im drunk now and too lazy too look up dates so im going by memory. I love my alcohol. Way too much :( .


I don't doubt that MDMA is usually a fun drug, and that it became popular as a result of this. I also don't doubt that its popularity led to it being banned - it would be difficult to ban a drug you don't know about.

But do you think the government looked at MDMA and said "People are having fun, this must be stopped!" or is it more likely they looked at the therapeutic potentials for MDMA, and then looked at the potential risks and made a decision that way?

Don't get me wrong, i'm sure there were plenty of people with the closed-minded attitude that any drug people were taking recreationally should be banned. I also wouldn't doubt that if MDMA does have roots in the gay club scene, that there would be an aspect of homophobia behind it.

#27 egodeath

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 12:13 AM

I don't doubt that MDMA is usually a fun drug, and that it became popular as a result of this. I also don't doubt that its popularity led to it being banned - it would be difficult to ban a drug you don't know about.

But do you think the government looked at MDMA and said "People are having fun, this must be stopped!" or is it more likely they looked at the therapeutic potentials for MDMA, and then looked at the potential risks and made a decision that way?

Don't get me wrong, i'm sure there were plenty of people with the closed-minded attitude that any drug people were taking recreationally should be banned. I also wouldn't doubt that if MDMA does have roots in the gay club scene, that there would be an aspect of homophobia behind it.


Knowing Protestant America, would you really be so surprised? It's drug history time!!! Here we go, class, please save any questions for the end of lecture:

On January 16, 1922 the 18th Amendment to the US Constitution was effected and alcohol, America's (and most of the free or not free world's) favorite ingredient, used in drinks such as beer and whiskey among others, became illegal. The powerful influence of temperance societies touting the bad effects of alcohol are usually blamed, and that sounds reasonable, so let's go with that. It wasn't until December 5, 1933 that the 21st Amendment re-legalized the drug. In that time the US had lost something like $500M in tax revenues (1920-30 dollars, of course) and powerful crime organizations like THE MAFIA had made tons selling alcohol on the black market. Does that sound like something that's going on now? (Hint: Pablo Escobar in the 80's, Mexico now.) Well, that little experiment failed because everyone liked alcohol. Then, in 1937 Cannabis was made federally illegal in the U.S. with the passage of the Marijuana Tax Act; many attribute this to a smear campaign run by Andrew Mellon and financial tycoons who stood to gain money from making hemp illegal. There went the possibility of legally enjoying a doobie. On October 24, 1968 LSD and psilocybin was banned after the gadam hippies with their protests against the wars and the guns and their blasphemous free love and whatnot had their Acid Tests and their druggie bullshit...what was I saying? Then there was the DMT ban in 1971...I really don't need to keep going. You get the point. The United States has a bad relationship with drugs. Cigarettes kill more people every year than LSD or Adam (MDMA) ever did and they don't even get you high, but they're legal. So I guess my point is: there's no solid criteria that's been developed to decide whether or not a drug is legal. The government doesn't really care if it kills you, they just don't need the subversion and social change that drugs seem to have the potential to cause. The drug lobby is more complicated than that, but MDMA is probably illegal (banned May 31, 1985) because too many people were having too much fun. It got no attention when therapists were experimenting with it as a tool to fix damaged relationships. And there are plenty of other drugs out there that haven't drawn the attention of the conservatives yet (Amanita, Morning Glory, etc). So yes, its popularity definitely led to its being banned but, as for its potential to cause harm, the literature on its ill effects is way too inconclusive to merit a Schedule I status. I do believe it could be useful in controlled settings to treat some disorders (I'm still pretty certain using it to help DPD, especially by yourself, would be a terrible idea), but oh well. C'est la vie.

Any questions, class?

#28 Conjurus

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 12:31 AM

Alcohol kills 50 times more people a year than all illegal drugs combined and costs the american people 130 billion dollars a year in damage.

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 01:40 AM

i think enough studies on MDMA have been done to know that its definitely not GOOD for you. I mean shit anyone whos done the drug can tell you that you feel worn out and spacey on a regular come down off of it. So much stress is put on your brain when you roll.

#30 egodeath

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 03:49 AM

i think enough studies on MDMA have been done to know that its definitely not GOOD for you. I mean shit anyone whos done the drug can tell you that you feel worn out and spacey on a regular come down off of it. So much stress is put on your brain when you roll.


Of course it's not good for you. I can think of few psychoactive substances that are good for you, save very moderate amounts of caffeine or red wine. That's not what it's about, though. What is the justification for allowing alcohol and cigarettes to be legal and classifying MDMA as Schedule I. Is there really "no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States" for MDMA (see current studies with PTSD) or "a lack of accepted safety for use of the drug or other substance under medical supervision"? And is there any currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States for cigarettes or alcohol and doesn't alcohol present a similar "lack of accepted safety for use of the drug or other substance under medical supervision"? How many people die from rolling on E every year? How many people get wasted and wrap their cars around trees or, worse, kill innocents?

#31 Matt210

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 07:49 AM

I guess we'll just call it a difference in opinion. I don't particularly like alcohol either - I understand the damage it causes. But I think we have to be realistic and look at the amount of people using alcohol as compared to MDMA when we are pulling statistics on the damage it causes to society. I also think that those numbers are missing the most important thing: the psychological consequences of taking a drug like MDMA.

As i've said, I drink alcohol from time to time - I would never touch MDMA. You can tell me all you want that is just because of the legal stigma of MDMA, but I can assure you it has absolutely nothing to do with that. I think we are kidding ourselves if we are discussing alcohol as more risky to personal well-being than a drug like MDMA.

I think the only argument that is valid in terms of drug legality issues is that people should be able to make their own decisions about their own well-being. If we are indeed correct that MDMA would cause minimal damage to society and only to the individual that takes it - then you could certainly argue that the individual should have the right to choose to take this risk. I don't necessarily disagree with this, which is why i've said i'm not for or against drugs being legal.

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 07:55 AM

I guess we'll just call it a difference in opinion. I don't particularly like alcohol either - I understand the damage it causes. But I think we have to be realistic and look at the amount of people using alcohol as compared to MDMA when we are pulling statistics on the damage it causes to society. I also think that those numbers are missing the most important thing: the psychological consequences of taking a drug like MDMA.

As i've said, I drink alcohol from time to time - I would never touch MDMA. You can tell me all you want that is just because of the legal stigma of MDMA, but I can assure you it has absolutely nothing to do with that. I think we are kidding ourselves if we are discussing alcohol as more risky to personal well-being than a drug like MDMA.

I think the only argument that is valid in terms of drug legality issues is that people should be able to make their own decisions about their own well-being. If we are indeed correct that MDMA would cause minimal damage to society and only to the individual that takes it - then you could certainly argue that the individual should have the right to choose to take this risk. I don't necessarily disagree with this, which is why i've said i'm not for or against drugs being legal.


Yes, people should be allowed to make their own choices, however people (like me) are stupid and over do it alot and cause alot more harm than necessary. THATS WHY MDMA is illegal .Its potential for abuse is so very high and the consequences of abuse of MDMA is MUCH greater on an individuals psyche than alcohol ever would be. It takes YEARS of alcohol abuse to do enough brain damage to be equal to maybe a year or two of MDMA abuse.

#33 egodeath

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 08:11 AM

I'm not for legalizing MDMA. I'm just pointing out how f*cked the system is.

#34 wael

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 02:20 PM

Just to separate the personal from the literature, you can conclude that mdma is interesting for its therapeutical value. Important is set and setting and attitudes toward new experiences. There are risks, especially when the former isnt there.
Here are some (parts) abstracts from recent studies:

Its acute mood effects can be very positive and life enhancing, and the affirmative cognitions engendered during MDMA therapy may well endure afterwards. However, MDMA also has a number of potential anti-therapeutic characteristics. Acutely, it can also intensify negative cognitions, and these may similarly endure over time
Psychotherapists have found that setting, intention, and expectancy are crucial for a positive outcome, but these factors cannot be guaranteed. Post-MDMA, there is a period of neurotransmitter recovery when low moods predominate, and these may exacerbate psychiatric distress. Finally, diathesis–stress models suggest that psychiatric individuals are more prone to acute and chronic abreactions to CNS stimulants such as MDMA (Parrott, 2007)

The therapists' belief was that MDMA inhibited the fear response to a perceived emotional threat, allowing the client to place the emotional sequelae of past experiences into a more realistic perspective in their current emotional lives and relationships. Also the importance of set and setting is evident. (Greer & Tolbert, 1998)

Clinical studies of MDMA have been hindered by the fear of harming participants through MDMA-induced neurotoxicity. However, experimental animal studies and brain imaging studies of recreational Ecstasy users have not evidenced that a therapeutic dose of MDMA would be sufficient to cause long-term serotonergic deficits. Furthermore, the issue of potential neurotoxicity may not be as important as it first seems since certain chemicals have been shown to protect against MDMA-induced neurotoxicity. Although clinical studies conducted thus far have been promising, more research into the effects of MDMA administration in humans is needed before solid conclusions can be made in respect to the possibility of safely using MDMA as an adjunct to therapy. Finally, a clear distinction should be maintained between the recreational and clinical use of MDMA. (Guillot, 2005)

Exposure therapy is known to be an effective treatment for anxiety disorders. Nevertheless, exposure is not used as much as it should be, and instead patients are often given supportive medications such as serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) and benzodiazepines, which may even interfere with the extinction learning that is the aim of treatment. Given that randomized controlled trials are now investigating a few doses of ±3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA, ‘ecstasy') in combination with psychotherapy for treatment-resistant anxiety disorders, we would like to suggest the following three mechanisms for this potentially important new approach: 1) MDMA increases oxytocin levels, which may strengthen the therapeutic alliance; 2) MDMA increases ventromedial prefrontal activity and decreases amygdala activity, which may improve emotional regulation and decrease avoidance and 3) MDMA increases norepinephrine release and circulating cortisol levels, which may facilitate emotional engagement and enhance extinction of learned fear associations
Thus, MDMA has a combination of pharmacological effects that, in a therapeutic setting, could provide a balance of activating emotions while feeling safe and in control, as described in case reports of MDMA-augmented psychotherapy. Further clinical and preclinical studies of the therapeutic value of MDMA are indicated. (Johansen & Krebs, 2009).

This is just for the people that are interested in the literature. The question to use mdma for personal gain is not evident.

My interest in mdma is perhaps more to get out this fucked up non-feeling state. As 2 great philosophers stated: Live for nothing or die for something (Rambo, J) or Live free or Die hard (McCain, J) :twisted:

#35 surf

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 08:27 PM

MDMA has that status for a reason. I know the U.S. is a little nuts with drugs, but can anyone really say they think its a good idea to treat anything with Acid or Ecstasy? It just defies all logic IMO.

I have heard countless recovery stories in my time on these boards, talking with psychiatrists, doing research on my own, reading books, etc. and in all this time I have never once heard of anyone recovering from using recreational drugs. Some people get to the point where they are able to do recreational drugs without any negative effects, but that is the best case scenario.

Worst case scenario is you join the ranks of thousands and thousands of people who have had their lives altered for the worst from these drugs.


MDMA use to be used in therapy sessions to treat several different mental problems, just as now several other drugs are prescribed. MDMA was made illegal after the company making them screwed up a batch resulting in Parkinson's disease for many people. I've read countless stories of people having life changing experiences on MDMA. If you buy Ecstasy from Joe Blow down the street you may think you're getting the real deal when just as Comfortably Numb wrote, it could be 10% MDMA, 90% Methamphetamine mixed with god only knows what.

Heroin has a bad rep because it's illegal when there are many pharmaceutical opiate based drugs similar to or even stronger than Heroin and all of a sudden people think nothing of it. I'm sure if the doctor said "Here is your prescription for Heroin" the patient would freak out.

Many people with ADD/ADHD are prescribed Adderall aka speed. People think :shock: speed is dangerous. Well no shit it is, but half the people who think that are probably using it. In the U.S. Methamphetamine is prescribed to people with ADHD and even people who have obesity problems. They don't flinch since it's under brand name "Desoxyn".

Benzodiazepines are just as dangerous or more than certain illegal drugs. Any drug you take you are gambling with, just because you have a prescription for it doesn't make it less dangerous or anything less than a drug.

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 08:59 PM

MDMA has that status for a reason. I know the U.S. is a little nuts with drugs, but can anyone really say they think its a good idea to treat anything with Acid or Ecstasy? It just defies all logic IMO.

I have heard countless recovery stories in my time on these boards, talking with psychiatrists, doing research on my own, reading books, etc. and in all this time I have never once heard of anyone recovering from using recreational drugs. Some people get to the point where they are able to do recreational drugs without any negative effects, but that is the best case scenario.

Worst case scenario is you join the ranks of thousands and thousands of people who have had their lives altered for the worst from these drugs.


MDMA use to be used in therapy sessions to treat several different mental problems, just as now several other drugs are prescribed. MDMA was made illegal after the company making them screwed up a batch resulting in Parkinson's disease for many people. I've read countless stories of people having life changing experiences on MDMA. If you buy Ecstasy from Joe Blow down the street you may think you're getting the real deal when just as Comfortably Numb wrote, it could be 10% MDMA 90% Heroin or Methamphetamine mixed with god only knows what.

Heroin has a bad rep because it's illegal when there are many pharmaceutical opiate based drugs similar to or even stronger than Heroin and all of a sudden people think nothing of it. I'm sure if the doctor said "Here is your prescription for Heroin" the patient would freak out.

Many people with ADD/ADHD are prescribed Adderall aka speed. People think :shock: speed is dangerous. Well no shit it is, but half the people who think that are probably using it. In the U.S. Methamphetamine is prescribed to people with ADHD and even people who have obesity problems. They don't flinch since it's under brand name "Desoxyn".

Benzodiazepines are just as dangerous or more than certain illegal drugs. Any drug you take you are gambling with, just because you have a prescription for it doesn't make it less dangerous or anything less than a drug.


just fyi, you cannot bind heroin with mdma into pressed pill form. Anyone who says they've gotten heroin based is full of shit or does not know what they're talking about.




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