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Question about brain scan and Rtms (especially to Mayer-Gross)


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#13 chng

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Posted 04 December 2020 - 07:18 PM

Thank you very much. You are a boon to this community.



#14 leminaseri

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Posted 05 December 2020 - 01:09 AM

I have a BA in psychology and had the plan to read into neuropsychology. I have a cause in psychopharmacology that is the part neuropsychologist take and also psychiatrists. But that is 25.years ago. But I am very familiar with reading in medical research and literature. I have read everything published about depersonalization. rTMS is a relatively new area in psychiatry that is mostly based around cognitive relation of emotions in the brain. To me it is relative new and most psychiatrists are not trained in this way of thinking and treating disorders. You have to read many brain imaging studies, studies of networks in the brain. It is mostly in the understanding of depression this area develops. But, it is a intervention that might be promising for many conditions in the future. It will not work in psychotic conditions like schizophrenia though. Then there is the technological development in rTMS equipment that does you can go deeper into areas in the brain where networks are abnormal. In depersonalization the problem is partly related to conflicting data where the core relations is and where to intervene. In reality it could be in several locations in the same network. The problem is also that the areas in the brain that is under suspicion to play role is to deep for the rTMS coils that was available until recently. So, locations active in depersonalization have never been tried because coils to stimulate so deep was not developed.


what about the ocd helmet from brainsway? is that not for anterior cingulate and dorsomedial pfc? what would be the difference between the ocd coil from magventure what you shown me?

#15 DPFighter

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 04:42 AM

Hey Mayer-Gross do you know for sure that the French rTMS trial is even going to happen? I haven’t been able to find anything online about it currently happening. Just wondering because an rTMS depersonalization study that was going to take place in New York was cancelled a few years ago. I hope they didn’t cancel this one

#16 Mayer-Gross

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 05:32 AM

The design of the French angular gyrus trail is from 2015 is here in this link. 

https://clinicaltria...how/NCT02476435

The head researcher of the trail should have replied some in February that the analysis of data should be finished in September. But, the outbreak of COVID-19 might have delayed it. A French girl who have had depersonalization for 7.years have made some post in a Facebook group  about her experiences of being part of the trail. The location worked on her but she also wrote that the response rate was around 50% at that location from what she knew.

 

I think that the trail might have difficulties in recruiting patients for the trail. In a German brain scan studies from 2019 they wrote that they had difficulties in finding sufficient numbers of patients closed to the area of the studies and it was likely due to that depersonalization in its primary form is highly under diagnosed. I don’t think a research program will accept self-diagnosed patients. They want a formal diagnosis made by a psychiatrist with journals of a medical history, then they will likely do some testing and interviews themselves prior to a trail. If they do not have done that the empirical material for the trail ( patients used) can be put into question and then the validity of the whole trail is put into question. The referral to the trail is likely also have to come though a psychiatrist. 

This could also have been the case in France and might explain the delay and it took several years. But, the French study in finished and it is the publication we are waiting for. It likely have to be in a peer-review process for 2-3.months prior to publication too. It will be published very soon I think.



#17 Want2lifeagain

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Posted 20 December 2020 - 04:55 AM

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC6562708/

Is that ???? Gyrus tms??

#18 Mayer-Gross

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Posted 20 December 2020 - 06:26 PM

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC6562708/

Is that ???? Gyrus tms??

This do not make any sense. The trail you are referring too is in coma patients who have a low self awareness and is give rTMS stimulation at 20.hz at the left angular gyrus to make it more active. In depersonalization you are inhibiting right angular gyrus with 1hz as it is too active. Totally different conditions, locations and treatments.






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