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I feel nothing towards the idea of recovery

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#1 Findmywayhome

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Posted 26 November 2020 - 08:10 PM

As usual, this post is probably going to be very long. I wasn’t too sure how I should title it, but I settled on what I did because it’s essentially the overarching issue of what i'm dealing with. I feel nothing towards the idea of recovery. This is not coming from a source of depression or any negative emotion. It’s sort of a result of the DPDR itself. The very way in which DPDR manipulates my perception makes me feel like recovery is nonsensical. Essentially, it is because my dissociation has lead me to form the following opinion on existence: True reality is an illusion, there is no proper mode of perception, there is no old life to go back to, there is no me, ergo; recovery isn’t possible because there is nothing to recover from, and there is no true reality to go back to. Now, I know intellectually that I am suffering from a mental disorder, but I swear I am so far removed from reality, my awareness has been expanded so drastically, and my introspection has increased so tremendously that it feels more so that I have experienced some form of conscious transcendence. Recover feels impossible because I feel as if as soon as one enters this altered state of consciousness, the brain simply can’t relearn how to go back to “normal”. I am well aware that feeling as if recovery is possible and the perception of reality is permanent is a common symptom of this disorder. Nonetheless, this is an issue that I am dealing with. Now I say that loosely because I’ve started to realize that I no longer feel as if im even suffering from this disorder. Rather, I feel as though I am merely in a different state of awareness, and I can’t wholeheartedly say that it is negatively affecting me. But intellectually, I know that it is. But this isn’t a consequence of emotional anhedonia, I certainly still feel emotions, even positive ones. I will have to elaborate on that later. The following text is likely going to be highly disorganized. My goal is essentially to try to explain exactly why I feel nothing towards recovery, and I will do so by explaining the very nature of how my DPDR distorts my perception precisely in that way. And I am also attempting to see if I can even articulate how I am feeling. My disorder is getting increasingly more abstract as time goes on. The words to describe my symptoms continue to fall shorter and shorter. But I find a degree of solace if I am able to actually explain my condition. It allows me to understand it better and experience it as information. I feel that anyone reading this could probably just stop at this paragraph and add their thoughts if they wish to, as I am only going to be hyper specific about my disorder within the next paragraphs. But to anyone who cares to read further, I appreciate it. 

 

(Existential trigger warning lol)

 

First let me dive into my fleeting, abstract, and vague sense of self that is certainly the most terrifying aspect of my disorder. My symptoms on the surface level are quite usual: physical detachment from my body, feel like I am watching myself behave, feel like my thoughts aren’t mine, feel like my voice is delayed when I speak, can’t associate with my identity and thus can’t associate with my personality, desires, interests, and even friends and family. All pretty basic stuff. But how exactly this all “feels” at its core is weird. I feel as if the “self” is distilled. It is no longer unified but rather it is fragmented within my mind. My DP is essentially the prism that has broken up and refracted my sense of self that is the ray of light that permeates through it. I feel as if I am constantly cycling through identities, but really I think this can be more accurately described by constantly undergoing various degrees of depersonalization. So no, it isn’t split personality disorder. I feel like I am constantly viewing myself from different angles, some make me feel more depersonalized, some less so. So essentially I feel like there is no localized “me” that exists within my mind. I feel everywhere and nowhere at the same time. I feel all over the place mentally. 

 

An unsettling thought is the idea of an ego death. People experience ego deaths in high enough doses of psychedelics. Essentially it is a complete loss of the sense of self, there is no boundary that divides the self from everything else. There is no longer a sense of agency, a sense will, within the consciousness. I have very little knowledge on the neurochemistry of psychedelics. If I remember  the ego death has something to do with how seratonin is regulated within brain during the trip. I wonder if DPDR can cause an ego death in a great enough severity. I can’t tell if I merely experience a disconnection from myself or if the self is actually deteriorating. There may not even be a difference. 

 

This distilled sense of self I believe affects my DR. I feel like I perceive reality on multiple levels at once. To attempt to describe this is so goddamn difficult. It’s like whenever I change perceptions, I am remembering that, “oh yeah, I have been this person my whole life, I am living life, I am alive, My past actually did happen, All these weird ass perceptions are a part of a mental illness, not reality itself” I become aware of how I actually exist but it contrasts to how I actually feel, thus it further emphasizes my dissociation.

 

Heres just some specific symptoms I have

 

I have seemed to realize that faces are representations. Its like I can’t believe none of us have realized this before. When we look at someone, where do we look? Their eyes, right? It seems that the human soul is most concentrated at the eyes, and a close second is the rest of the face. I have become extremely aware that we are not looking at a person when we look at them, we are looking at a REPRESENTATION of them. I look at someone smiling and that’s not what I see, I see the facial muscles being contorted in such a way so that it physically represents the inner emotional processes going on within the soul that is operating that body. I visualize a strange and germane disconnect when I look at a persons face and where their soul actually exists. I can’t exactly say this symptom is unsettling, but it sure is weird. A person is not their face, their face is a physical representation of how they feel. I don’t really feel an essence when I look at faces. Normally they would pop out at me, each facial expression has a different vibe in my mind, but now faces seem stale, and arbitrary.

 

Just a lot of weird meta awareness about our perception. I have become aware that I don’t actually know “where” my consciousness exists. When I say this Im not sure if I mean where it exists in time and space, but I have no clue. Where is all my stimuli being localized and processed? Where am I experiencing the world. Thinking while walking is so strange now. Its like, are my thoughts moving with me? But they’re not, they don’t exist in time and space, so why do i feel like they do, or they should? Also vision is weird. It seems that we exist mainly where our eyes do. I feel like I am this tiny little homonculus that is peering through the two anthropogenic windows that are my eyes. Also holy shit isn’t it so weird that eyes are seemingly opaque balls of flesh, like how can we see through them? This also leads me to understand that what we see isn;t reality, it is a representation of it. Pure reality doesn’t have any essence. This is a philosophical idea called the phaneron. We don’t experience the world, we live and interact within a tiny little bubble of perception that is bounded by our somatic and mental systems. I actually had a rudimentary realization of this before I experienced DPDR. I realized that vision is only possible because we have senses designed to process photons as visual information. Photons are literally just packets of electromagnetic energy emitted by atoms. Thus I realized that vision is an extremely complex illusion. We are literally just staring at a constant stream of hundreds of quintillions of photons at once, we aren’t actually looking at objects. When I realized this, I actually felt a very mild form of derealization. It was like their was a thin screen between my eyes and objects. I touched my desk, and I felt as if I was looking at an invisibly thin film between my fingers and the desk that was the photons being emitted by the atoms in it. This was all before I realized the complex cognitive and neural processes that are involved with constructing the illusive perception of vision. I feel like everything I perceive from external reality is being experienced in my brain, and I mean it technically is, I am just SUPER aware of that. That’s why I think in a lot of ways this disorder isn’t a distortion of reality at all. Rather we have become so disturbingly aware of the processes that construct how we experience the world. We have been awoken to the illusion of consciousness and the reality it projects. Of course, this could very well be a component of the disorder, but Its very hard for me to believe. Now, this isn’t to say that I don’t believe reality exists. I know for a fact that reality exists OUTSIDE of our perception of it. However, I have realized that the way in which we experienced it is fundamentally arbitrary. 

 

I feel like I am viewing the world at the very front of my perception. My awareness isn’t focused on the things happening inside my reality, rather I am constantly aware of the very processes that are percieving it. I feel “behind” everything. I walk around and it doesn’t look like I am navigating the world, I feel like everything is moving around me. It all feels like a giant illusion. 

 

I wanna talk about my bizarre emotional state. I really barely feel like I am suffering anymore. I don’t actually even feel like I have a disorder. I am so dissociated I have dissociated from the disorder itself, or something. Of course I always know intellectually that I do have a mental disorder. I feel like my emotional centres are very independent from my dissociation at this point. Despite feeling like the entirety of existence is a paradox, I still actively seek out and experience emotions and pleasure. I feel as if my emotions are all that I have left of me. When I am not doing anythig stimulating I feel effectively dead. The unification of my disassembled sense of self becomes temporarily strengthened when I am experiencing emotion. Lately I’ve been living off of nicotine. To anyone that is reading this don’t tell my mom please thanks lol. I own a vape, but I haven’t used it in over a year, it just sits hidden away in my desk drawer. Last weekend I was surprised when I found I had a full bottle of vape juice sitting at the bottom of my old school backpack. I said fuck it and filled it up and started again. My tolerance was basically reset so damn it was a nice buzz. I literally feel like I am addicted right now. I have been in my room for hours in a day just sucking on my vape like a juice box straw. I feel like this constant stream of dopamine is not helping my DPDR at all, but I can’t afford to care. 

 

So I dont have anhedonia, yet I don’t feel anything towards my disorder. This is why I feel like my sense of self is so extinguished that their is no “me” that is even suffering. But perhaps I am just used to it? I can’t tell if I even exist anymore. 

 

I’ve been checking the DP forums. But its like I do it impulsively, the same way I mindlessly check instagram or snapchat. I read these amazing recovery stories, but I weirdly feel like they don’t apply to me. My DPDR must be to the degree that a part of me can’t actually affectively process the fact that I am suffering from a disorder, despite me knowing that I am. 

 

So, given all this, I wonder If I can recover, despite feeling like that is impossible on every level. I feel like I am in a completely different reality. I feel like I woud have to be put in a coma and have my brain reset in order to go back to normal. I wonder If I can ever go back to the dream of human experience. 

 

So thats that. I know there is so much more I wanna say. But my memory is royally fucked. So thats it for now.


 



#2 heneluna

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Posted 26 November 2020 - 11:42 PM

Same.

 

Your posts remind me of all the ramblings I have on my phone in my notes app. You weren't asking for advice, but.. just don't think lol. Also don't vape plz take care of your body even if you aren't connected to it. No but really, you made some good points. Maybe we are just super perceptive, maybe all those CIA documents were right, maybe we are all the same energy and everyone is everything and everything is just consciousness.. and nothing at all..??? But thinking of all that constantly is just self torture, disorder or not. Ignorance is bliss.

 

I too feel like I'm not suffering anymore, just constantly floaty and not giving a crap about it most of the time, this is probably just me becoming finally used to this disorder. I used to think about this crap and the universe/existence constantly, and now I have a blank mind due to overworking my brain from thinking too much. You might not feel like you're suffering because you basically already know everything about this disorder. You know why it's happening, what the symptoms are, and now you're just going with the flow in a way, and thats a step to recovery itself, just letting it be. 

 

So just continue to let it be. I mean indulge in philosophy as well if you'd like, but at the end of the day I feel like just letting go of all that and living like a "simple organism" is whats healthiest for our humans minds especially with dpdr. (Yeah I am saying that as if I'm not on an actual forum right now, but hey my cognition is getting better as a result so don't come for me)

 

Good luck!



#3 Findmywayhome

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Posted 27 November 2020 - 12:44 PM

Same.

 

Your posts remind me of all the ramblings I have on my phone in my notes app. You weren't asking for advice, but.. just don't think lol. Also don't vape plz take care of your body even if you aren't connected to it. No but really, you made some good points. Maybe we are just super perceptive, maybe all those CIA documents were right, maybe we are all the same energy and everyone is everything and everything is just consciousness.. and nothing at all..??? But thinking of all that constantly is just self torture, disorder or not. Ignorance is bliss.

 

I too feel like I'm not suffering anymore, just constantly floaty and not giving a crap about it most of the time, this is probably just me becoming finally used to this disorder. I used to think about this crap and the universe/existence constantly, and now I have a blank mind due to overworking my brain from thinking too much. You might not feel like you're suffering because you basically already know everything about this disorder. You know why it's happening, what the symptoms are, and now you're just going with the flow in a way, and thats a step to recovery itself, just letting it be. 

 

So just continue to let it be. I mean indulge in philosophy as well if you'd like, but at the end of the day I feel like just letting go of all that and living like a "simple organism" is whats healthiest for our humans minds especially with dpdr. (Yeah I am saying that as if I'm not on an actual forum right now, but hey my cognition is getting better as a result so don't come for me)

 

Good luck!

"...maybe we are all the same energy and everyone is everything and everything is just consciousness... and nothing at all" Wow. I mean that's exactly how I would describe my weird metaphysical and spiritual perception of existence. It's so weird. This disorder makes super abstract things like that seem very eminent and terrifying. I don't view life colloquially anymore. It all seems so intangible, symbolic, and arbitrary. I have this sense of oneness and transcendence in respect to it all. I've had these brief moments where I can actually appreciate the beauty of how pure and ultimate this perspective is, but most of the time its so damn unsettling. I just wanna live life like a normal human. 

 

It's glad to hear im not alone. Perhaps that's all this is. My indifference is simply me being acclimated to it. But I can't shake this uncomfortable meta cognition that makes me feel as though I am dissociated from the dissociation itself; I know on a thin layer of intellectuality that I am suffering from a disorder. But on every other level I cannot process it. I feel disconnected from the disconnection. Hence why I believe I eerily feel nothing towards the disorder because I am dissociated from it.

 

But I appreciate your response and advice. When you said, "but thinking of all that constantly is just self torture" it rang so true to me. It's like, perhaps we truly are grasping the illusion of our existence, but that doesn't mean we should bother ruminating about it. It doesn't negate that there is still a fruitful life to enjoy. I will try my best.



#4 leminaseri

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Posted 27 November 2020 - 02:17 PM

"...maybe we are all the same energy and everyone is everything and everything is just consciousness... and nothing at all" Wow. I mean that's exactly how I would describe my weird metaphysical and spiritual perception of existence. It's so weird. This disorder makes super abstract things like that seem very eminent and terrifying. I don't view life colloquially anymore. It all seems so intangible, symbolic, and arbitrary. I have this sense of oneness and transcendence in respect to it all. I've had these brief moments where I can actually appreciate the beauty of how pure and ultimate this perspective is, but most of the time its so damn unsettling. I just wanna live life like a normal human.

It's glad to hear im not alone. Perhaps that's all this is. My indifference is simply me being acclimated to it. But I can't shake this uncomfortable meta cognition that makes me feel as though I am dissociated from the dissociation itself; I know on a thin layer of intellectuality that I am suffering from a disorder. But on every other level I cannot process it. I feel disconnected from the disconnection. Hence why I believe I eerily feel nothing towards the disorder because I am dissociated from it.

But I appreciate your response and advice. When you said, "but thinking of all that constantly is just self torture" it rang so true to me. It's like, perhaps we truly are grasping the illusion of our existence, but that doesn't mean we should bother ruminating about it. It doesn't negate that there is still a fruitful life to enjoy. I will try my best.

bruhhhh youre ruminating so fucking heavy hyper much even people with 40 years dpd dont write so fucking long posts like you. you have this for 8-9 weeks and you talk like you got this since 1922. BELIEVE ME! YOURE DOING THE BEST THINGS TO MAKE YOUR DPD LIFE-LONG. you do say „i was at the indoor skate park and IT WAS FUN. and then suddenly i wondered WHO I AM“ dont fucking do this. and DONT RUMINATE. i will say it again. with this patterns, and the fact, that your brain is still under development with 17, if you doing your way like this, then you will brand this disorder in your brain. recovery is nothing you can feel towards anything. okay for everybody it could be different. but for me it was like

„im going to my friends. im derealized. we are playing ps4. im derealized. it makes fun. im derealized. im laughing much. im derealized. im going home. im derealized. i eat something. im derealized. im going to sleep. im derealized. i wake up. im derealized. i make breakfast. im derealized. im going go to work. im derealized. after 6 months, i did the same things but with another thought. im derealized but fuck off it makes still fun. then, im derealized but i accepted it, and my life is still exciting.

and with this last mindset, your derealized life becomes one day real again. its not like a switch or flip.

and the biggest prove for your illfull ruminating is, i never seen someone in this forum who makes so long posts. youre writing so motherfucking much. believe me here are people with cognitive impairments and motherfucking strong anhedonia. they would all swap with you. and you should begin to worth this man. you have only one life. dont fuck your life with senseless ruminations. even if you would read all the books on this earth you wont get an answer for your questions because its only the dp. i get those intrusive thoughts also. just like you. but i say then „fuck off i know my past and how what functions“

#5 Findmywayhome

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Posted 27 November 2020 - 04:33 PM

bruhhhh youre ruminating so fucking heavy hyper much even people with 40 years dpd dont write so fucking long posts like you. you have this for 8-9 weeks and you talk like you got this since 1922. BELIEVE ME! YOURE DOING THE BEST THINGS TO MAKE YOUR DPD LIFE-LONG. you do say „i was at the indoor skate park and IT WAS FUN. and then suddenly i wondered WHO I AM“ dont fucking do this. and DONT RUMINATE. i will say it again. with this patterns, and the fact, that your brain is still under development with 17, if you doing your way like this, then you will brand this disorder in your brain. recovery is nothing you can feel towards anything. okay for everybody it could be different. but for me it was like

„im going to my friends. im derealized. we are playing ps4. im derealized. it makes fun. im derealized. im laughing much. im derealized. im going home. im derealized. i eat something. im derealized. im going to sleep. im derealized. i wake up. im derealized. i make breakfast. im derealized. im going go to work. im derealized. after 6 months, i did the same things but with another thought. im derealized but fuck off it makes still fun. then, im derealized but i accepted it, and my life is still exciting.

and with this last mindset, your derealized life becomes one day real again. its not like a switch or flip.

and the biggest prove for your illfull ruminating is, i never seen someone in this forum who makes so long posts. youre writing so motherfucking much. believe me here are people with cognitive impairments and motherfucking strong anhedonia. they would all swap with you. and you should begin to worth this man. you have only one life. dont fuck your life with senseless ruminations. even if you would read all the books on this earth you wont get an answer for your questions because its only the dp. i get those intrusive thoughts also. just like you. but i say then „fuck off i know my past and how what functions“

Lmao, I feel like im getting screamed at over the internet.

 

I get your point. But I'd argue that journaling is different and more productive than ruminating. I've felt the theraputic benefits journaling gives me, I feel like it allows me to grasp my disorder better, thus having a stronger more rational view towards it. So should I stop journaling about it? I know that eventually I should for sure. At this point in time, Im in isolation as a kid in my class got covid. Schools are getting shutdown for two months, and I am legally not allowed to go anywhere. There's not much I can do right now lol.

 

I am going to be honest I don't appreciate that you are undermining my disorder to a rumination problem. My ruminations are a product of my extremely fucked perception of my reality, not the other way around. When I was at the skatepark, I didn't voluntarily start asking myself, "who am I?" the SENSATION of me feeling like I just disappeared came uninvited, thus creating the thought. So when you say "don't fucking do this" you are literally telling me to stop being depersonalized. I would be reluctant to be so irate towards me if I were you as you obviously hardly understand my situation. I think what you taught me is that we seem to underestimate everyone elses cases. I have found very few people on this site whom I would say that I WOULDNT swap with. Don't be so ignorant.

 

With all that said though, I wholeheartedly agree lol. Writing does more harm than good. im currently telling myself that one day when I feel a little better im gonna get my shit together, leave this forum, and try to exist as fruitfully as possible. But realized that I dont exactly have a plan for when that day will come. Perhaps im gonna try my best to start now. No garuantess.



#6 Aha's Shadow

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Posted 01 December 2020 - 11:35 AM

Can I ask, did you read some of my posts before writing this topic title?

#7 Findmywayhome

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Posted 01 December 2020 - 12:39 PM

Can I ask, did you read some of my posts before writing this topic title?

Yes. But I wouldn't say it was that relevant to this post. I remember reading one of your posts about dissociation from the mental illness itself, and I thought I suffered from the same thing. After reading your recent posts more carefully I realized that isn't true. You seem to be unsure of whether or not you are mentally ill, or if you have travelled into another reality. This is not my problem. I KNOW 100% intellectually I suffer from dissociation. But I have meta dissociated from the DPDR itself thus I don't strongly feel anything towards recovery. I also think its because my sense of self is so miniscule that there is barely any "me" to feel anything towards recovery. 

 

DPDR is a very unique form of dissociation in that one who suffers from it still knows on an intellectual level something is wrong. You seem to suffer from something far more serious. Unlike other DPDR sufferers, you can't even be sure that you are mentally ill. In addition, you seem to be very obsessive with numbers, coincidences, etc. I suffer from none of that.

 

So I guess if you are wondering that I subconsciously implanted what you suffer from into my head from reading your posts... no, thats not the case. But I could have misinterpreted what you meant by your comment.



#8 Aha's Shadow

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Posted 01 December 2020 - 02:08 PM

Well that was wordier than I expected.

I asked because your turn of phrase in the title was just like that I used when I was describing "dissociation from mental illness". So I wondered if you had either consciously or unconsciously used similar wording.

I will say that as someone with mental illness, you should know that it is triggering to suggest to someone they may have something more serious than they've been told by professionals. I have sought help and continue to do so even though I struggle with whether it will actually help.

I use this forum to converse with those who have had similar issues in the meantime for some reassurance, and if you look around you will see various others that have had issues with coincidences etc.

I've had a particularly difficult week or so hence my more severe posts recently.

#9 Findmywayhome

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Posted 01 December 2020 - 04:52 PM

Well that was wordier than I expected.

I asked because your turn of phrase in the title was just like that I used when I was describing "dissociation from mental illness". So I wondered if you had either consciously or unconsciously used similar wording.

I will say that as someone with mental illness, you should know that it is triggering to suggest to someone they may have something more serious than they've been told by professionals. I have sought help and continue to do so even though I struggle with whether it will actually help.

I use this forum to converse with those who have had similar issues in the meantime for some reassurance, and if you look around you will see various others that have had issues with coincidences etc.

I've had a particularly difficult week or so hence my more severe posts recently.

Yeah that's basically what I assumed. I was aware that the the title sounded similar to your posts but I didn't think much of it I guess.

 

I apologize. I guess I can blame my lack of empathy and ignorance of social consequences that is a byproduct of this disorder. If it's any consolation, on second thought perhaps what you suffer from isn't actually worse than DPDR. If you have what I think you do which is some form of OCD and some form of psychosis (an extremely uneducated guess) than I would argue that what you have is far more treatable than DPDR(maybe?). Point is, you suffer from more than just DPDR.

 

What help have you seeked? Have you had a proper diagnosis? Are you taking any meds?

 

I have regrettably interacted and read posts on this forum quite extensively and you seem to be the only person I've found who suffers from what you have. Sure Ive seen a lot of people with an obsessive component (which is commonly comorbid with DPDR) but they know that they have OCD.

 

Same, man. I feel dead. I hope we can get better. Again I apologize for being very blunt. This is wordy again. But im sure you noticed a common theme with me is writing unecessarily long posts.







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