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GABA - back down the rabbit hole


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#1 Broken

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 08:18 AM

So I've been speaking a lot about emotional trauma recently and think it is very relevant. I do strongly believe our personality types (influenced by our upbringing) or emotional trauma (even it that was 'just' a panic attack) caused this primarily. But that DP was an anxiety/fear based thing that was eventually bound to happen. I think people without anxiety know how to 'self-soothe' and therefore don't ramp up the cycle for it to grow out of hand. I have started to consider whether this overly active response to anxiety with myself would naturally increase adrenaline/glutamate and therefore just be a matter of time before I developed DP.

 

I've tried Lamotrigine to no success but that mainly blocks glutamate and only minorly increases GABA. I've never had any strong GABA drugs as they are a big no no in the UK, although phenibut had some impact but caused severe nausea and hangover effects. I do believe attitude towards yourself is still majorly important, but my genes and gut are making it a mountain to big to climb with attitude alone. When I did have the panic attack on weed there was excruciating abdomen pain (I ate the weed) so this could be related to gut/bacteria. I do believe mind and body are one thing, if we are a fearful person the gut will provide the correct bacteria for that and downregulate GABA. People see it as a chicken and egg thing but I don't believe its that simple. So the next step I'm trying is gut based and diet based with a few supplements:

 

Magnesium Sulphate (epsom salts)

Lots of water

P5P - bioavailable B6 needed to make GABA

Yakhult, tempeh, kimchi - fermented foods increase friendly GABA making bacteria

Taurine - supposedly increases GABA (not sure how)

LOTS of coconut oil - ketones/ketogenesis improve GABA, perhaps through enzymes that produce GABA. Not a fully ketogenic diet but increased fats. Currently 3 teaspoons extra virgin coconut oil in tea twice a day

Green tea- L-theanine passes BBB and turns directly into GABA

Lifeplan Lactobacillus Acidophilus and Rhamnosus bioactive bacteria

HIIT training - did the first few sprints last night, massively unfit! But slept the best I have for a few weeks and feel better for it today. High intensity training increases GABA quickly. Takes 10mins everyday, and I will defo keep to this more than long 30/40min jogs as its quick and more fun. When you run until your chest is bursting you can't be thinking about DP

Yoga/meditation - when I say yoga I do a few stretched but its the same effect. There was a study that showed yoga massively increases GABA after one session. Also meditation increases this, and helps me with my attitude towards myself

 

If anyone else has any further additions that are easily achievable would love to hear your input!



#2 Hedgehog fuzz

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 10:59 AM

Benzos should be available but only very short term. 

 

What dose of lamotrigine did you get upto? Did you notice any changes at all? Was that from the DP Unit? Did it help with concentration and memory issues (if you had them - not sure that you did).

 

Pregabalin should be easily prescribed by most psychiatrists. Gabapentin as well, but my doctor has given me Pregabalin. They think that my dp is driven by anxiety. You could look into that?

 

sorry lots of questions. 



#3 CK1

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 11:00 AM

I think increasing GABA can't hurt, at least on a trail bases, some good stuff on that list, the 3 that I know which works to boost GABA are:  
 
L-theanine, L- glutamine, Picamilon, i've recently started all three. 
Taurine lost it's effect within about 4 days and i was taking a mega dose, it defiantly felt like Gaba at the start. 

 

Another thing i've read a bit about but not enough to state advice is serotonin has a relationship with it, something to look into. 
 
Gaba is very difficult to make, expect to not see results over night. The Gaba drugs that do work over the night don't seem like good options. i am guess you are talking about are diazepam which from my experience with such drugs they seem to have a very small window of Gaba boosting, like say clonazepam, probably the most affective in that bunch, 10mg will give me 2/3 hours of GABA feeling, relaxed etc.. But i certainly don't wake up the next day with more GABA, it feels like if anything, less. This is not science it's just a feeling but i know people who take it long term have a problem processing Gaba again. Kinda the problem with all these things, if you cheat your system by boosting something the easy way, well it doesn't end up well, basically you get nothing for free. I'm not saying don't use medication by the way, just that sometimes it requires more than a burst of what you need I guess...



#4 Broken

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 12:32 PM

Lamotrigine dose was up to the 300's mgs and had no effect whatsoever. Yeh from the DP unit. I have concentration memory issues severely, especially in social situations. Perhaps getting modafinil soon, having BP and blood tests this week at my GP so fingers crossed they approve the recommendation. I doubt thy will though. I've had gabapentin but no use, I sometimes worry I don't give these meds enough time.. but they should have SOME effect in the month or two I try them. Think I was on lamotrigine for 2-3 months. 

 

Hmmm picamilon any good? Phenibut was for me but the nausea was extreme for the dosage I needed and the hangover would cause me to have to up the dose the next day... if I could eat because the nausea/hangover was so bad. I'm trying to avoid any meds, and I see picamilon as technically a med. I just worry about natural downregulation and building a tolerance, especially with GABA based meds/neutropics. You basically said this to me at the end of your post :) 

 

Looking forward to my sprints tonight. Made me feel better within half an hour last night and only did 3 sprints. Also slept far better and felt more relaxed in the morning. Going to really go for it tonight and will report back!


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#5 Billy D.P.

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 12:40 PM

It's never a bad idea to start living a healthy lifestyle and you have lots of great stuff in there. The best thing you can do is eat more fruits and veggies. Also, if you want to transform your gut bacteria you'll need to cut back on meat. Another tea to try is hibiscus. It might actually be more beneficial than green tea, believe it or not. 

 

Only advice I'd give, since I've basically been doing what you're getting into for the last nine months, is to ease into it. Take it slow. Don't overdo it. It's gonna take a lot of time to transform your body and mind but if you keep at it you'll see results. You don't have to work out everyday. You don't have to eat really healthy everyday, just as long as you do it most of the time. 


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#6 CK1

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 01:02 PM

Are you still with DP unit? I was thinking of signing up but i just wondered after the 'London method' do they think outside the box like for instance after i tried that i'd want to try Adderall/Ritalin and then next on my list is Naltrexone and/Or Suboxone...? 

 

Personally i think 3/4 months is fair trial, that's what i am going for from reports i've read, but usually after a month or two you should have some type of something... 

 

Yeah we agree on it although I am trying to find out if cheating my system in any one thing helps as i'm not responding to much at the moment. 

 

Picamilon is a drug I suppose, it's a supplement in most counties but UK has banned it.  (Doesn't mean you can't import it legally). ATM i am just on 100mg, i've tried 200mg. Gonna do some research see what the safe amount is and see if a mega dose does anything but... don't base it on me. 

 

don't seem to respond to downers at the minute yet "uppers" i am sensitive to. For instance i just got a temporary 7 day script of 15mg Diazepam in the UK... the average person would get 5mg... and it's not doing anything for me, this is due to bipolar. 

 

Have fun at your sprints 



#7 mrt

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 01:08 PM

Are you still with DP unit? I was thinking of signing up but i just wondered after the 'London method' ...

What is the London Method?



#8 CK1

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 01:27 PM

Kings College London MRT. The first thing they use is Lamotrigine (taper up to 400mg) + Clonazepam + tricyclic antidepressant (often clomipramine) - documents floating around saying they had 40% responders to this in trails. I don't have anything that says that but I do have 2 documents, one with them explaining DP, the other saying it's what they use. 


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#9 Broken

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 02:23 PM

Saw a shrink there and they suggested mirtazapine(??) which is an atypical antidepressant I believe. May ask for it seeing how this week goes as the exercise has been helping and just ordered a butt tonne of supplements to try for GABA upping. SSRI's tend to make me worse but mirtazapine sounds promising. May give it a go in the next month. I would love a tricyclic but unlikely to get prescribed. Still think my GP is going to be prescribing things and modafinil is the next request from London but am fully expecting my GP to decline the request. I want to give it a go but half suspect it will make my DP worse. But it does increase bloodflow to thr VMPFC which is affected in DP and my concentration is awful so who knows



#10 CK1

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 02:55 PM

Mirtazapine is a tetracyclic, it stopped my blank mind when i tried it after 3 months, until that period i did not enjoy it, added more spaced out feeling, overall good though, takes a good few months in my experience to get past the side effects, i believe Mirtazapine is only half a treatment to be honest, something for the anxiety with it i think would be beneficial. 

Modafinil? it's on my list, just many down. Pretty sure your GP won't decline anything, they are now the experts in your care and over your GP. Just how say my psychiatrist can write me 15mg of Diazepam, my GP sure did not like it, wrote me a letter but could not say no. Least you are a few meds ahead at all times! 



#11 Broken

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 04:20 PM

Ahh ok didn't realise it was tricyclic just thought it was atypical antidepressant. May give it a go soon. Yeh I've heard it stated in research that an SSRI + modafinil is the 'silver pearl' of DP... or something like that. We will see, I've had modafinil recommended from the clinic before about 4/5 years back and it was declined. So we will see. The sprints went well though. Felt sick for about 20 minutes but feeling better now. Also ordered a load of GABA tea, B-GOS and inulin for the healthy gut approach. Fingers crossed


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#12 CK1

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 05:09 PM

Ahh ok didn't realise it was tricyclic 

 

it's not, tetracyclic is different than tricyclic. Google would be better at explaining that. 

 

Oh yeah? sounds like a good combo. One that in fact is going on my list, thanks.  

 

Really? i just don't see how they can turn down such standard drugs from people above them, if my doctor turned it down i'd get a new one 






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