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The Ultimate Guide to Schizophrenia.

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#13 *Dreamer*

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 10:20 PM

“Depersonalisation Disorder (DPD) constitutes, according to the Psychiatric Diagnostic and Statistic Manual (DSM) IV, ‘a feeling of detachment or estrangement from one’s self. The individual may feel like an automaton or as if he or she is living in a dream or a movie. There may be a sensation of being an outside observer of one’s mental processes, one’s body or parts of one’s body.’ People who experience depersonalisation may, at the same time, experience de-realisation, the sense that the external world is strange or unreal.

People with a major psychiatric disorder, including severe anxiety or panic disorder, depression, post traumatic stress disorder, obsessive compulsive disorder and schizophrenia, and people with neurological conditions such as migraine and epilepsy, can experience depersonalisation as a symptom. People who do not have mental health or neurological problems can also experience depersonalisation when they are in states of fatigue, fear, stress, emotional turmoil or meditation, or after taking drugs like cannabis or Ecstasy.
"

 

If someone presents to a psychiatrist with DP/DR AND actual hallucinations and paranoia, the diagnosis would move towards bipolar/mania, schizoprhenia, psychotic depression, etc.

Again, Solomon, you know I have great respect for you.  I just get frustrated.  I think some people terrify themselves and say "I am paranoid" when actually they may be overly self-conscious.  Someone who is truly paranoid thinkis someone is following them, everywhere.  I know a woman in my depression support group who also has paranoid personality disorder ... that is, it hasn't affected her work, but limits her social interactions. She doesn't trust anyone. She has few friends.  She is certain people talk about her behind her back when this is NOT happening.

She SWEARS that someone has broken into her house (bypassing an alarm system) and rearranged clothes in her closet, moved furniture or small objects  Stolen silverware and then brought it back.  She also has called the police to report several men have been following her for the past ten years.  One is a black man with dreadlocks.  Another is a white man who looks like a skinhead.

The police have never found any proof of any of this.  She literally believes theses things and shares these with us in group.  She has nearly sued the police for not helping her, but we in the group know that these things are not happening.  They couldn't be, etc.

Sometimes she stops bringing this up in group for months.  Then sometimes when she is under stress it will come up again.  There is no specific treatment for this type of paranoid thinking. And this would be a perfect example of paranoia by itself.

OK time for bed.
Again, in the spirit of clarity.


Edited by *Dreamer*, 04 March 2015 - 10:28 PM.


#14 *Dreamer*

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 10:24 PM

We DO agree on that post above.

But you also say that those of us with DP have paranoia, halucinations, etc.  Can you give me specific examples?

 

What I challenged before is you said people with DP can have:

  • Feeling unreal.

  • Delusions.

  • Hearing/Seeing things that aren't there.

  • Lack of Emotional Expressions.

    I am saying, "No."  People with DP/DR ALONE as a diagosis or symptom, feel unreal, but do not have delusions, don't hear/see things that aren't there.  And you also mentioned paranoia.

    I agree in the first point.  "Feeling Unreal."  I suppose I could agree with the last.  But the two highlighted in red.  They do not fit the criteria for DP or DR.

    I'll let it go!  I'm tired.
    Nite.

     



#15 SolomonOrlando

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 10:48 PM

If someone presents to a psychiatrist with DP/DR AND actual hallucinations and paranoia, the diagnosis would move towards bipolar/mania, schizoprhenia, psychotic depression, etc.

Again, Solomon, you know I have great respect for you.  I just get frustrated.  I think some people terrify themselves and say "I am paranoid" when actually they may be overly self-conscious.  Someone who is truly paranoid thinkis someone is following them, everywhere.  I know a woman in my depression support group who also has paranoid personality disorder ... that is, it hasn't affected her work, but limits her social interactions.

She SWEARS that someone has broken into her house (bypassing an alarm system) and rearranged clothes in her closet, moved furniture or small objects  Stolen silverware and then brought it back.  She also has called the police to report several men have been following her for the past ten years.  One is a black man with dreadlocks.  Another is a white man who looks like a skinhead.

The police have never found any proof of any of this.  She literally believes theses things and shares these with us in group.  She has nearly sued the police for not helping her, but we in the group know that these things are not happening.  They couldn't be, etc.

Sometimes she stops bringing this up in group for months.  Then sometimes when she is under stress it will come up again.  There is no specific treatment for this type of paranoid thinking. And this would be a perfect example of paranoia by itself.

OK time for bed.
Again, in the spirit of clarity.

 

I have a great deal of respect for you too, I'm not trying to start an argument. In fact, I'm very much wanting to learn more and I'm happy if I get corrected, it gives me a chance to further my knowledge here. However, I think we have very different definitions of symptoms. 

 

Paranoia, for example, has two different definitions. 

  • A mental condition characterized by delusions of persecution, unwarranted jealousy, or exaggerated self-importance, typically elaborated into an organized system. It may be an aspect of chronic personality disorder, of drug abuse, or a serious condition such as schizophrenia in which the person loses touch with reality. 
  • Suspicion and mistrust of people or their actions without evidence or justification. 

I may generalize a certain symptom with a vague definition. When people come to the forum and say that they believe their food is poisoned or that their parents are out to hurt them, I say that's paranoia. Just as much as someone might say something as severe so as to warrant the first definition, which is also a viable description of paranoia. In my mind, there are "levels" to certain things. In both cases of paranoia above, we can safely use the word paranoia, because both would fall under such definition - but both are varying in severity. 

 

What I challenged before is you said people with DP can have:

  • Feeling unreal.

  • Delusions.

  • Hearing/Seeing things that aren't there.

  • Lack of Emotional Expressions.

 

Delusions are the same thing. 

 

The definition of delusion has a variety of meanings. The one that you're thinking of is the strong conviction one might hold to something, regardless of the contradictory evidence. My definition (only in certain cases, mind you) is simply a belief held that is not true - a false belief. I rarely use the word delusion when I speak to people and I actually, in most posts, tell them that they're overly conscious (like you said originally). I only use the word delusion in this post because I'm generalizing a train of thinking with the latter definition of "false beliefs", which can encompass many different trains of thought when you're suffering from Depersonalization. 

 

As for hearing/seeing things that aren't there, it's the same generalizing concept. The point of this "guide" was to help people with their fears of turning Schizophrenic - people can hear and see things that don't appear there without having Schizophrenia. Meaning, if I hear my name being called and no calls it, that doesn't mean I'm suffering from a severe disorder. If I see a shadow in the corner of my eye, again, that doesn't mean I'm suffering from something like psychosis. 

 

I note the difference between these two symptoms in both the weaker cases (Depersonalization, by use of generalizing symptoms) and the severe cases (in or relating to major psychosis or Schizophrenia). However, I think you're correct in the sense that I need to clarify more of what I'm trying to discuss. Keep in mind that this post was almost seven months old - since then, I've taken many hiatuses from the site in order to apply for several different colleges (degree in Psychology) and am actually attending college now. 

 

So, between previous administration deleting all of my posts, a number of hacking attempts on the community, and several examples of defacement in posts by previous moderators (that have been promptly banned months ago), I haven't had much time to go over and edit prior posts - including this one. I hope to learn more and, soon, clarify what I mean by all this in a better, more substantial post, that we can both agree on wholly. I never was a psychologist and don't plan to communicate that I am one until I have my degree. This post can contain errors and misrepresentation. I apologize widely for anything here that might have rubbed you the wrong way. 

 

In short, this is miscommunication at it's finest - which is my fault and I apologize. I intend to come back and fix this post at a later date. 



#16 *Dreamer*

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 02:35 PM


 

As for hearing/seeing things that aren't there, it's the same generalizing concept. The point of this "guide" was to help people with their fears of turning Schizophrenic - people can hear and see things that don't appear there without having Schizophrenia. Meaning, if I hear my name being called and no calls it, that doesn't mean I'm suffering from a severe disorder. If I see a shadow in the corner of my eye, again, that doesn't mean I'm suffering from something like psychosis. 

 

I note the difference between these two symptoms in both the weaker cases (Depersonalization, by use of generalizing symptoms) and the severe cases (in or relating to major psychosis or Schizophrenia). However, I think you're correct in the sense that I need to clarify more of what I'm trying to discuss. Keep in mind that this post was almost seven months old - since then, I've taken many hiatuses from the site in order to apply for several different colleges (degree in Psychology) and am actually attending college now. 

 

So, between previous administration deleting all of my posts, a number of hacking attempts on the community, and several examples of defacement in posts by previous moderators (that have been promptly banned months ago), I haven't had much time to go over and edit prior posts - including this one. I hope to learn more and, soon, clarify what I mean by all this in a better, more substantial post, that we can both agree on wholly. I never was a psychologist and don't plan to communicate that I am one until I have my degree. This post can contain errors and misrepresentation. I apologize widely for anything here that might have rubbed you the wrong way. 

 

In short, this is miscommunication at it's finest - which is my fault and I apologize. I intend to come back and fix this post at a later date. 

Good Grief, man. No apologies.
I see what you are saying.
And I also understand the past upheaval on the Board really messed a lot of stuff up!


My final comment -- and I realize this is really not an easy topic to clarify to most people -- is,

if anyone were to take an exam in university on the question:
"Please list the symptoms of Depersonalization/Derealization Disorder (as it is now called in the DSM-5)"

A correct answer -- in strict medical terminology -- would not include ... well really the last three things you listed.
As a psychology or medical student, one would get that answer incorrect on the exam -- it would be assumed the student did not understand the correct criteria.

Many people without DP or any mental disorder can think someone called their name when no one actually did.  Many healthy people also "catch something out of the corner of their eye."  It is just like many "healthy" individuals do experience DP/DR ... for shorter periods of time ... and completely forget about it ... just like very brief episodes of deja-vu.  I have a girlfriend (no issues) who on occasion has felt "too small" outdoors.  She never thought anythng of it ... again a brief deja-vu type of experience.  "Glitches like this are normal."

 

Those of us with DP/DR and anxiety and who worry ourselves sick blow these things way out of proportion.

On the other hand -- you mentioned someone here felt they were being poisoned.  If they REALLY believed that, that would NOT be a symptom of DP/DR at all -- and they should seek help for paranoia as a symptom of any number of forms of psychosis.  They may have DP too, but that would then not be the primary problem.

  If they were obsessing that someone MIGHT poison their food, but didn't really believe it, but was just over analyzing everything -- that would be anxiety related or perhaps OCD related -- not part of DP/DR in any way.

Absolutely NO debate here -- after all these years I am simply a stickler for the right info on mental health issues -- SO many people "don't get it" anyway -- SO frustrating.  I was actually more angry at the term "schizo" being thrown around.  Errr, I HATE that term! 

Life is truly confusing.  And DP/DR, even moreso.
NO argument, and no worries, and NO need to apologize! :)
And congrats on pursuing a psych degree in college!

 


Edited by *Dreamer*, 05 March 2015 - 02:41 PM.


#17 eter

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Posted 22 August 2015 - 06:56 AM

I have had a few hallucinations in my life. For me it is a huge difference between a hallucination, and percieving things in my surroundings oddly. If anyone has questions regarding how they differ, just from a fellows perspective, you are welcome to write. Good post, good discussion.

#18 Mochan

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Posted 22 August 2015 - 06:37 PM

I had what I believe was an auditory hallucination once a few months ago (heard my niece call my name). I'm still scared as hell, and still trying to figure out if I didn't just hear my neighbour's kids call something similar to my name.

#19 eter

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Posted 22 August 2015 - 07:02 PM

I had what I believe was an auditory hallucination once a few months ago (heard my niece call my name). I'm still scared as hell, and still trying to figure out if I didn't just hear my neighbour's kids call something similar to my name.

 

I do not mean to make your experience seem small, but that is example of what I experiece daily, and refer to as "percieving things oddly". Just my own words for when I take in information, through my ears, or eyes, or my skin for that matter, and something in my head, distorts the information. So I percieve it oddly.  An example of an hallucination I have had, is a very big, yellow, and angry piece of lego with eyes, just standing in one of my cellarrooms. I felt like I really saw it, with my own eyes. I, of course, were utterly chocked, and surprised, and on the verge of terror, when I realised what had happened. I had an hallucination. Hearing my name calling, the phone ringing, a radioprogramme, when nobody is here, I have no phone, no radio, that is me like combining fragments of lots of information, both from my senses, but also, fragments from my mind, like memories, into a concept of some kind. It is a process of in my case, a mind with very weak walls. It is caused by processes in the present. I can relate to my conclusions in some rational way, when percieving oddly. With hallucinations, I mean, they do not feel like something that comes, from me, I feel no relation, and they, when they occur, the very second, they are real, without any question, to me, and I always feel an amount of terror, without even having a second to think.







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